Hamilton to Red Bull?

[CHT]

I don't agree. I think they saw 2007, and indeed they profited from it. I don't think they'd be willing to introduce the same system.

I think a Lewis and Alonso pairing at Ferrari will draw a lot of attention to the team even if they cant beat RBR in the championship. It will be a like a rematch between to heavy weight world champion

[horse]

Funny thing is though, is Hamilton really showing his value at the moment? He talks about requiring the fastest car to win the championship, who doesn't need that? His team mate has shown he is perfectly capable of winning using the fastest car. My belief was that the value of Hamilton was in turning not so great machinery into a winning car. This season he isn't doing that, so what's he's got to offer?

[raymondu999]

That is a VERY interesting statement you put there horse. I hadn't thought about it from that angle either. It was what he said (many times) he learnt in 2009 too; how to help bring a team out of the doldrums.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Mansell and Villenuve are right in saying Hamilton should stay put.

If only for loyalty, Mclaren have given him a winning car in each of his 5 seasons in F1. Red Bull would be doing well to match that in 5 years time, Newey or not.

5 years service in a winning car now he wants to jump ship? Thats to say if the rumours are true, and they're gathering a head of steam and credibilty if the stories eminating online are anything to go by.

I would stand and applaud if in 10 years he is still at Mclaren and a 2 or three time champ, in cars that may not always be the best but have a chance at least of winning.
Equally I would say if he moved he would have gone down in my estimation as looking for the easy route to winning.

What happens if Red Bull lost the plot? Would he sit for a few years chewing the fat whilst Mclaren/Ferrari/Mercedes(whoever) cleaned up? Or would he be on his bike again to the team that had the quickest package?
And what if Vettel gets the measure of Hamilton? In an Austrian backed team the wunderkind will always have more clout than an Englishman, regardless of so called "equality".

Lets hope Hamilton stays at Mclaren and earns himself even more kudos doing so.

[Richard]

Personally, I'd like a return to the era when divers did move from team to team... anything to avoid domination by one driver/team!

There are only 3 teams that have the possibility of a WDC car - McL, Fer, RB. There are unlikely to be vacancies at RB or Fer because they have spent the last two years aligning everything to support Vettel and Alsonso, would they really want to disrupt that by bringing in Hamilton?

However, Hamilton does need to do something to break his current run of poor form & frustation. If he was in a normal job I'd advise him to change companies (or division/role within the company), not because his team are bad, but simply that a change of scene would get that monkey off his back (or chip off his shoulder).

If he can't change team, then maybe he needs to change the team around him, bring in a new race engineer, a new strategist. Not because the current lot are bad, but to replicate the rejuvenating effect normal folk (ie us!) get from changing employer or role.

[ell66]

its gotta make you laugh when horner compares hamiltons record to vettels and talks up how seb has more wins and poles, obviously failing to mention that he's had far and away the most dominant car for the last 2-3 years ( something which hamilton has never had) with only a journeyman driver as his team mate.

[ringo]

Hamilton can change mclaren.
Ever hear the saying a prophet is not welcome in his homeland?

They are too used to him, and in some ways takes him for granted. They know he is institutionalized and doesn't have the mercenary mentality like Alonso.

It's sad to say but i think he'll be staying there forever, or until his head is bald like his dad's and he loses the marketing appeal.

I want the Vettel Hamilton match up, as it's obvious he'll beat Vettel. But it wont look smart if the 27 is the new fastest car which i doubt.

Engineers are unlikely to produce better work within a few months. They can only make a better car if there is some re shaping of the way they work, or some kind of enlightenment seminar.
The 27 wont even be better than this RB7. The RB8 will be much improved as Newey actually learns some things from the competition.

[Ciro Pabón]

Thanks, ringo. I did not know Hamilton have already been institutionalized.

I approve that.

Which institution did McLaren chose?

[dren]

Hamilton can change mclaren.
I want the Vettel Hamilton match up, as it's obvious he'll beat Vettel. But it wont look smart if the 27 is the new fastest car which i doubt.

Engineers are unlikely to produce better work within a few months. They can only make a better car if there is some re shaping of the way they work, or some kind of enlightenment seminar.
The 27 wont even be better than this RB7. The RB8 will be much improved as Newey actually learns some things from the competition.

I don't understand how it's obvious Hamilton will beat Vettel. If it's obvious, there is obviously no need for the matchup... I am curious who could put in better qualifying laps in the same car. I think Vettel would maximise his points and Hamilton would crash more. It's a toss up. Hell, Vettel may even be quicker.

Vettel is utterly dominating his teammate this year. I never rated him as high in the past, but I have to put him up there now.

I agree with the two ex Williams drivers that Hamilton should stay put. Mclaren has produced a race winning car year after year, some better than others. There will be another toss up at the top when the regulations change in a few years. Maybe Red Bull will lose the edge then. It certainly gave the ex Honda team a run for glory.

[Ciro Pabón]

...

I don't understand how it's obvious Hamilton will beat Vettel...

You don't? Well, easy. A little bump on the rear inner wheel at the apex and presto. Oldest trick in kart racing.

Thinking about that, how about Hamilton in NASCAR? He already knows all the moves... and I think there is a Red Bull team there.

If I were at Red Bull, I would pick Button. He has beaten Ham this year, hasn't he? Or perhaps Button has also a faster car than Hamilton, so it doesn't count.

Obvious.

[PlatinumZealot]

Hamilton can change mclaren.
I want the Vettel Hamilton match up, as it's obvious he'll beat Vettel. But it wont look smart if the 27 is the new fastest car which i doubt.

Engineers are unlikely to produce better work within a few months. They can only make a better car if there is some re shaping of the way they work, or some kind of enlightenment seminar.
The 27 wont even be better than this RB7. The RB8 will be much improved as Newey actually learns some things from the competition.

I don't understand how it's obvious Hamilton will beat Vettel. If it's obvious, there is obviously no need for the matchup... I am curious who could put in better qualifying laps in the same car. I think Vettel would maximise his points and Hamilton would crash more. It's a toss up. Hell, Vettel may even be quicker.

Vettel is utterly dominating his teammate this year. I never rated him as high in the past, but I have to put him up there now.

I agree with the two ex Williams drivers that Hamilton should stay put. Mclaren has produced a race winning car year after year, some better than others. There will be another toss up at the top when the regulations change in a few years. Maybe Red Bull will lose the edge then. It certainly gave the ex Honda team a run for glory.

Hamilton has never been in a dominant rocket-ship that's why. Crashing is a part of racing, the brave and the stupid will crash, that's sport.

As per the reasons for Hamilton to join redBull it is obvious isn't it? He knows that Vettel is not the best, so to prove it, he has to beat Vettel in his own team. After he beats Vettel in his own team, he will be the undisputed champions of champions. The only champion who would left on the field to beat would be MSC.

[Ciro Pabón]

Don't we have 5 WDCs right now?

n_smikle, I dare to say (to be ignored, again) that the only driver that Ham has beaten clearly in the same F1 car is Kovalainen.

Alonso tied in points with him, while the team wasn't precisely supportive of the Spaniard.

Button has lost one season with Hamilton, while being the newbie at the team, but right now he is winning the second season and by a lot of points.

So, if Hamilton knows he is the best (his own words) why are lesser individuals, smaller drivers, less than perfect competitors beating him? I'd say this happens precisely because he thinks he's the best. Why should you make an effort if you're superhuman? Complacency and vanity go together.

Frankly, that's the reason why I don't miss an opportunity to mock this attitude: I dislike vain attitudes, no matter how good they person is. Or, in this case, no matter how good the person thinks he is.

As soon as Hamilton starts to respect other drivers (because, to me, saying you're the best driver in history certainly shows lack of respect for the drivers and the fans and total lack of knowledge of history), I'll stop this kind of posts, because I don't like personal attacks on drivers. In this case, he's the one attacking other drivers, claiming to be over them. Hence the proliferation of sites mocking his press releases and interviews. Every time he talks, he manages to offend someone.

I'm afraid, that in this case, I'm NEVER going to stop mocking him because he seems sometimes to be the most spoiled driver in history and I believe he's never going to stop thinking he's above others.

And that's why I think Hamilton is stuck at McLaren.

Nobody I know likes this kind of person: imagine the demands he's going to make at Red Bull!

His fans actually call him The Boss. If I were the boss of a team, well, I would think twice before introducing another one into the team, specially when he candidly confess that he lacks knowledge of car development and tuning (by his own words). In F1 that's a no-no, even if his fans call this "confidence" and "risk taking".

Finally, he shows how thoughtless he can behave: right at the moment when he's having his worst season and he is in a slump, crashing instead of reaching precious points, he wants to change teams. Probably he thinks nobody notices that. Now, when he was at the top (briefly), he declared he would never change teams. Words fail me (and, let me tell you this doesn't happen every day!).

[PNSD]

I want the Vettel Hamilton match up, as it's obvious he'll beat Vettel.

Im another who is interested in how you have formed this opinion.

[Hangaku]

Don't we have 5 WDCs right now? And one of them is beating Ham in the same car...

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/statistics/2 ... orm-guide/

Trolling troll is from Trollhättan.

[Ciro Pabón]

Well, I might be a troll, sure. Or perhaps there is over sensitive people around here. Pick one.

I'm up to my ears of some religiously motivated Hamilton fans, who cannot take a honest evaluation of his idol in the adoration they feel for Mr. Hamilton.

Now do we have to tiptoe around the threads in fear of offending someone when we doubt Ham is not the best in history or, if we don't, we suddenly become trolls? You can sit and wait for me to become silent, if that's the case.

I have been a mod, Hangaku. How could I suddenly become a troll? Just because I say Button is beating Hamilton? Please, by all means, denounce my posts. The reason being... what?

You feel trolled, that's very different from me being a troll.

Ask the forum, dear: it is happening at every race this year. Someone points to Hamilton fracas and then suddenly he is a Hamilton hater to very specific new members of the forum. That's what I call trolling, btw.

So, I gladly and loudly say Hamilton vanity is exasperating and the assumptions his fans make about this unproven abilities are astounding. I'm not alone in this, I'm sure. And that's why I think I make valid points. Just read the previous posts by other persons right before yours.

I guess you're going to claim they are my sock puppets.... Anything is fine if you're into denial.

About the statistics you point us into, thanks. They show to me that this year Hamilton is marginally fast but he is under the "lousy racer spell" because he doesn't convert the times into points.

The graph shows that the average difference in qualy times between the best driver in history and Jenson Button is 4 hundredths of a second, btw. Compare that with 20 points difference and, please, reach some conclusion.