Hamilton to Red Bull?

[PlatinumZealot]

Don't we have 5 WDCs right now?

n_smikle, I dare to say (to be ignored, again) that the only driver that Ham has beaten clearly in the same F1 car is Kovalainen.

A win is a win. He beat button 3/4 of the time in races in 2010 - though not on points as espected.

Alonso tied in points with him, while the team wasn't precisely supportive of the Spaniard.

He beat Alonso in Qualifying, and he was more consistent than Alonso. So he got the nod. Not bad for a rookie.

Button has lost one season with Hamilton, while being the newbie at the team, but right now he is winning the second season and by a lot of points.

He was beating Hamilton early last year as well. It's interesting because in all their time at Mclaren Button has never used speed to beat Hamilton. Button has only won due to Hamilton's bad luck. Yet still in 2011, though Button has more points, He is still being beaten on a race by race basis.

So, if Hamilton knows he is the best (his own words) why are lesser individuals, smaller drivers, less than perfect competitors beating him? I'd say this happens precisely because he thinks he's the best. Why should you make an effort if you're superhuman? Complacency and vanity go together.

He is the only driver on the grid that has never been beaten by a team mate - in his LIFE. He must think he is the best. Especially considering he knows what Vettel was beaten already.

Frankly, that's the reason why I don't miss an opportunity to mock this attitude: I dislike vain attitudes, no matter how good they person is. Or, in this case, no matter how good the person thinks he is.

It is not vain. Mohammed Ali is the greatest and he let everybody know he was. Mike Tyson let everybody know he is the best. Michael Johnson let people know, Usain Bolt (I am number ONE!) shouts it from the mountain tops. I like that attitude in sports and it's not vanity when you can back it up.

As soon as Hamilton starts to respect other drivers (because, to me, saying you're the best driver in history certainly shows lack of respect for the drivers and the fans and total lack of knowledge of history), I'll stop this kind of posts, because I don't like personal attacks on drivers. In this case, he's the one attacking other drivers, claiming to be over them. Hence the proliferation of sites mocking his press releases and interviews. Every time he talks, he manages to offend someone.

The best in history? Not yet, but he thinks he is the best of this generation.

I'm afraid, that in this case, I'm NEVER going to stop mocking him because he seems sometimes to be the most spoiled driver in history and I believe he's never going to stop thinking he's above others.

But he is above others. The other drivers are just too chicken to take him on verbally.

And that's why I think Hamilton is stuck at McLaren.

Nobody I know likes this kind of person: imagine the demands he's going to make at Red Bull!

His fans actually call him The Boss. If I were the boss of a team, well, I would think twice before introducing another one into the team, specially when he candidly confess that he lacks knowledge of car development and tuning (by his own words). In F1 that's a no-no, even if his fans call this "confidence" and "risk taking".

Finally, he shows how thoughtless he can behave: right at the moment when he's having his worst season and he is in a slump, crashing instead of reaching precious points, he wants to change teams. Probably he thinks nobody notices that. Now, when he was at the top (briefly), he declared he would never change teams. Words fail me (and, let me tell you this doesn't happen every day!).

I think the best driver should have the best car and have the strongest teammate because you can only be the best by beating the best on equal footing.

[Ciro Pabón]

Oh, my. The other drivers are chickens and people that doubt Hamilton abilities are trolls. Hamilton beats people on a race by race basis, but not in the points.

This summarize the new forum we live in.

Allow me, n, to make two quotes (while I go down on my knees and swear I'm not trying to offend anyone, much less Hangaku):

In this traitor world
nothing is true nor is a lie
everything is in accordance with the colour
of the glass you use to look at it.

-- Calderón de la Barca, Life is a dream --

Second Lieutenent Jake Jenson: Second Lieutenant, Jake Jenson. West Point. Graduate with honors. We're here because you are looking for the best of the best of the best, sir!
[throws Edwards a contemptible glance]
[Edwards laughs]
Zed: What's so funny, Edwards?
James Edwards: Boy, Captain America over here! "Best of the best of the best, sir!" "With honors." Yeah, he's just really excited and he has no clue why we're here.

-- Men in Black --

[PlatinumZealot]

Who said anything about trolling? A post is a post to me, no matter how inflammatory or provoking. I am immune to trolling.

I am a Vettel supporter (not a fan!) now, but do I think Vettel is chickening out? Yes! because a real BOSS wants to stomp the challengers as fast as possible, sort of like "killing them before they grow." Actually, I think Vettel should be tearing away at Horner's knees like a little chihuahua begging for a piece of Hamilton! Is he doing that? nope... Is Hamilton doing that? Yes!

And to me that is what real dominance is about; frothing at the mouth to beat any other "pretenders" into the dust. That is the difference between Hamilton and the average driver, that is why he is the BOSS.

[ringo]

Hamilton can change mclaren.
I want the Vettel Hamilton match up, as it's obvious he'll beat Vettel. But it wont look smart if the 27 is the new fastest car which i doubt.

Engineers are unlikely to produce better work within a few months. They can only make a better car if there is some re shaping of the way they work, or some kind of enlightenment seminar.
The 27 wont even be better than this RB7. The RB8 will be much improved as Newey actually learns some things from the competition.

I don't understand how it's obvious Hamilton will beat Vettel. If it's obvious, there is obviously no need for the matchup... I am curious who could put in better qualifying laps in the same car. I think Vettel would maximise his points and Hamilton would crash more. It's a toss up. Hell, Vettel may even be quicker.

Vettel is utterly dominating his teammate this year. I never rated him as high in the past, but I have to put him up there now.

I agree with the two ex Williams drivers that Hamilton should stay put. Mclaren has produced a race winning car year after year, some better than others. There will be another toss up at the top when the regulations change in a few years. Maybe Red Bull will lose the edge then. It certainly gave the ex Honda team a run for glory.

Well you guys need to look on the context. Vettel wont put in better qualifying laps with Hamilton as teammate. He wont race as calmly, and he will be very paranoid if they are running 1-2.
Webber is not the same as Hamilton. Vettel cracks under pressure. This is proven time and time again.
If you have Hamilton as a teammate, who is the pressure meister, you are in a presure cooker for the whole season.

I am not surprised by Vettel's run, as he is the time attack king. I've always reserved that right for him even in 2009. His performances are no suprise.
It doesn't change my opinion that Hamilton is the fastest driver on the grid.
2010 against webber is enough proof for me.
His past also speaks for itself. His past is not a polished as Hamilton's, and he has lost to teammates.
Naturally that would suggest that he's not the quickest out there.

If he was then he would want to eat Hamilton for breakfast and lure him into the Bull pen.

He fears Hamilton and i can read it between the lines of his words.

I want to respond to Ciro, but his posts are too long. He should break them up into paragraphs with each having no more than 6 lines.

So Ciro cut your Hamilton crashing arguements, as that is getting old now, and let's seriously consider what will take place if THE BOSS were to go into the Bull Pen to layeth the smack down comandments on the golden calf idol which is Vettel.

If he makes a covenant with the team, statistics show he will dash down on the calf idol, destroying him in his own team. And the people will have no choice but to turn away from the Wonder kid.

And i am not being a fan boy here. But the guy just can't lose to a teammate over a season. If he does fall back in a race, it always be because he is either out of the race or some mistake by the team. He has never lost on pace.
vettel is just not raw enough of racy enough to hold of Hamilton for a full season.

[ringo]

Thanks, ringo. I did not know Hamilton have already been institutionalized.

I approve that.

Which institution did McLaren chose?

you don't know what i mean by institutionalized?

It's somewhat like brainwashing but unintentional.

It's like having a 50 year prison sentence, and by year 30 you kinda get to like the place and it becomes all you know and even after being released you kinda want to go back as you got so used to the lifestyle.
When the warden gave you the keys to leave prior to your release; he'd know you wont try to escape as you are "institutionalized".

Mclaren have Hamilton in the palm of their hand in just the same way, or they think they do.

[Traction]

Bottom line is at the moment Vettel is destroying Hamilton at every turn, every record and on every track...speculation about what ifs and what could be means nothing when you look at the score board and history....

[ringo]

Just like he destroyed him in China..

It aint over till the Haug sings. Remember those words!

Vettel can lose it all this season so don't get too comfortable.

He has the fastest car, so fast that Webber can mess up every race and naturally gravitate to 2nd spot.

It can all come crashing down though, remember Massa Brazil 2008. After seeing that i don't swear for any championship.


I don't think Hamilton will leave for RB, but if it was even for 1 race, i'd love to see it.

[Traction]

Just like he destroyed him in China..

It aint over till the Haug sings. Remember those words!

Vettel can lose it all this season so don't get too comfortable.

He has the fastest car, so fast that Webber can mess up every race and naturally gravitate to 2nd spot.

It can all come crashing down though, remember Massa Brazil 2008. After seeing that i don't swear for any championship.


I don't think Hamilton will leave for RB, but if it was even for 1 race, i'd love to see it.

one race...and only because Vettels tyres were worn ...but sure...its still way to early to call it....anything can happen...it aint over till its over. Lololol...can you imagine if Vettel loses it from here??..that would be some kind of a record in itself....

[rfs]

I am not surprised by Vettel's run, as he is the time attack king. I've always reserved that right for him even in 2009. His performances are no suprise.
It doesn't change my opinion that Hamilton is the fastest driver on the grid.
2010 against webber is enough proof for me.
His past also speaks for itself. His past is not a polished as Hamilton's, and he has lost to teammates.
Naturally that would suggest that he's not the quickest out there.

The only teammate that has recently beaten Vettel over a season was Di Resta in F3 five years ago. That doesn't mean he'd beat him now. And with respect to Vettel vs Webber, don't forget Seb outscored Webber in 2008 for Toro Rosso, and he beat Mark comfortably in 2009. And if he hadn't lost 3 wins to mech failures in 2010 he would have beaten Webber comfortably that year too. His dominance over Webber this year is just normal service being resumed.

If he was then he would want to eat Hamilton for breakfast and lure him into the Bull pen.

If Hamilton was in Vettel's shoes (or rather, his car) he'd do the same. If you're winning every race you have nothing to prove. So why try to prove something by asking a particular driver to come get some? If a driver is comfortable where he is he wouldn't try changing anything just to stroke his ego.

So Ciro cut your Hamilton crashing arguements, as that is getting old now, and let's seriously consider what will take place if THE BOSS were to go into the Bull Pen to layeth the smack down comandments on the golden calf idol which is Vettel.

If he makes a covenant with the team, statistics show he will dash down on the calf idol, destroying him in his own team. And the people will have no choice but to turn away from the Wonder kid.

As Ciro said, the only teammate Lewis has "destroyed" in F1 is Kovalainen. We all know Button is slower than Lewis. Yet he only got about a race win's worth of points more than Jenson last year, and Jense is ahead so far this year. Vettel IMO is just as quick as Lewis, so even if Lewis beat him over a season it would only be by about ten points at most. Don't forget that Hamilton and Alonso got the exact same number of points in 2007.

[ringo]

Alonso Blown away..

Jenson digested and regurgitated to be chewed up again...

Kovi steam rolled....


Just bring it Vettel. No excuses. If you are the best then you shouldn't lose to any one that comes in your way. Di Resta or otherwise.

The match up wont happen any time soon anyway. Vettel will lose the title this year.

[CHT]

Simon Fuller should get Lewis a drive at Ferrari instead of RBR. This will give Lewis the opportunity to prove to the world that he can beat Alonso both "home" and "away" and clears all the doubts that Lewis was being favored by Mclaren when Alonso was his teammate.

[CHT]

Lewis should accept the fact that he will be trapped at Mclaren for many years to come. Perhaps, Lewis should start thinking about settling down and start a family soon with Nicole since she will be 34 next year.

"At the end of the day it's about winning. It's not solely down to Red Bull to provide the entertainment. We do enough of that. If you look at any great team, be it with a football team, hockey team, across the disciplines, it's about the unit working as such, and not about individuals. What we've managed to achieve here, and what's hugely important, is that no individual is bigger than the team.

"I think it would be difficult to envisage a driver of Sebastian's calibre and that of Lewis under the same roof. Lewis is a wonderful driver, and you can understand why he might want to drive a Red Bull. It's obvious. But would it be the best thing for us? We have severe reservations it would be."

Horner also said he feels he has the better driver of the two at present with Vettel boasting a record of 16 wins and 23 poles from his 70 grands prix, compared to Hamilton's 15 wins and 18 poles from 79 races.

[CHT]

Button (Honda/Brawn), Vettel(RBR) and Alonso(Renaultx2) have proven track record of turning a mid field team into a world champion. As for Lewis, he hasn't got that record in his resume yet. Maybe he should consider joining a smaller team to prove his capability to be a team player

[Shrieker]

About the statistics you point us into, thanks. They show to me that this year Hamilton is marginally fast but he is under the "lousy racer spell" because he doesn't convert the times into points.

Or... Maybe because he is more ambitious than his team mate? On an average weekend, Button will accept a 5th or a 6th. When the title is fast eeking away from his grasp Hamilton won't and we've seen proof of it in all the troubles he's gotten into this season. So the ambition is what makes Hamilton Hamilton and Button; well... Button. At the end of the year Hamilton will have more points than Button but he doesn't even give a s*** about it. He. Wants. The. Title. With all due respect, Button isn't a candidate for the title, therefore not a threat for Lewis.

Button (Honda/Brawn), Vettel(RBR) and Alonso(Renaultx2) have proven track record of turning a mid field team into a world champion. As for Lewis, he hasn't got that record in his resume yet. Maybe he should consider joining a smaller team to prove his capability to be a team player

Or a degree in mechanical engineering would be of help too, don't you think ?

[ringo]

Button (Honda/Brawn), Vettel(RBR) and Alonso(Renaultx2) have proven track record of turning a mid field team into a world champion. As for Lewis, he hasn't got that record in his resume yet. Maybe he should consider joining a smaller team to prove his capability to be a team player

Not true.

A driver doesn't turn a back marker into championship car.

A double diffuser does, mass dampers do, Newey does.

So i don't think on anyone will pursue this arguement.

Track record, in 1 year with a technical loophole? come on man

As for Lewis he doesn't need that record as it doesn't exist with any other driver.

He doesn't drive for "team player" capability. He drives to win championships, that's it. That's what Alonso did, that's what Button did as well when he left Brawn.
So reevaluate what you are putting forward here, and come up with another percieved weakness that would prevent him from kicking Vettel's hiney if he was to go to redbull.

Ask Horner why he doesn't want a star driver as Vettel's teammate.