Martin Whitmarsh has to go!

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
wesley123
wesley123
204
Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Martin W has to go!

Post

okay, so in what way doesnt Domenicali allow FOTA to control Ferrari in a way that withmarsh does allow it?

Oh and a team order at the begin of the race? at a moment where button did not see Hamilton? you must be ridiculous. They both drive for even chances, Button signed a contract for that so he shouldnt go out of the way, ridiculous that you think button should.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
559
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Martin W has to go!

Post

internetf1fan wrote:What is he thinking? Ever since he took over McLaren he's done nothing but to shoot themselves in the foot. At least Ron knew what it took to win championships.

MW on the other hand is too nice. They had the best KERS package in 2009 but then joined FOTA and refused to carry over it to 2010 when it would have been perfectly legal.

And now, MW pushed for the regulation change even though he must have known that it would hurt McLaren the most. Why is McLaren still in FOTA in the first place? Isn't FOTA there to prevent something like this happening? FOTA has been completely useless. MW should be fighting for his team and not for the benefits of others.

Due to MW, McLaren is now behind Ferrari in pace and soon McLaren will lose their second place in the WCC.

Well done MW, well done.
No.

Hamilton has to go! :lol:




(just a joke, no replies please hehehE)
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

Racing Green in 2028

wesley123
wesley123
204
Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Martin W has to go!

Post

internetf1fan wrote:http://adamcooperf1.com/2011/07/09/fia- ... ams-agree/

We will see Whitmarshes true colours. Either way, he will either appear a flip flopper or be seen acting against McLarens best interests.

edit: We'll also see what FOTA is all about.
I dont see your point here?
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

User avatar
Paul
11
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 19:33

Re: Martin W has to go!

Post

Why should McLaren be like Ferrari? One of the beauties of F1 is competition of different philosophies. One Ferrari is more than enough Ferraris for me. If a team boss bases his decision not only on the benefits for his own team, but also for F1, which is the sole reason his team can exist, then I can only applaud it.

internetf1fan
internetf1fan
0
Joined: 19 May 2010, 14:50

Re: Martin W has to go!

Post

wesley123 wrote:okay, so in what way doesnt Domenicali allow FOTA to control Ferrari in a way that withmarsh does allow it?

Oh and a team order at the begin of the race? at a moment where button did not see Hamilton? you must be ridiculous. They both drive for even chances, Button signed a contract for that so he shouldnt go out of the way, ridiculous that you think button should.
1)Watch Domenicali manipulate the FOTA members so that the regulation change doesn't get reverted back.

2)I am not arguing if team orders are ridiculous or not. I am saying that MW isn't prepared to use them when it's necessary. Compare that with Ferrari. Do you really think Massa has a clause in his contract which specifies he should move over?

And for your "did not see hamilton" bit, that's exactly why team orders were necessary. I am not saying MW should have told button to move over. The least he could have done is to tell them NOT to race each other in those difficult circumstances.

Nickel
Nickel
9
Joined: 02 Jun 2011, 18:10
Location: London Mountain, BC

Re: Martin W has to go!

Post

Troll

wesley123
wesley123
204
Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Martin W has to go!

Post

this is in no way serious, or thi is just some sort of trolling or it is just Withmarsh bashing, ah well it is something different then Hamilton bashing lol.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

User avatar
ringo
240
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Martin W has to go!

Post

Most of these kinds of threads are legitimate. A lot of good threads have been closed because of poster whinging.
I think MW is too thin skinned, he cares more about image than taking advantage of any thing that can give an edge.
The team just hasn't been the same since 2008.

Hamilton needs to go to redbull, and we need that thread reopened. :mrgreen:
As it basically falls under the silly season threads that we have here all the time.
For Sure!!

donskar
donskar
2
Joined: 03 Feb 2007, 16:41
Location: Cardboard box, end of Boulevard of Broken Dreams

Re: Martin W has to go!

Post

Please do NOT close this thread: it's great to see some irrational hate posts NOT aimed at Ferrari!
=D> :roll: :lol:
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

wunderkind
wunderkind
5
Joined: 04 Apr 2007, 06:12

Re: Martin W has to go!

Post

I don't think Martin Whitmarsh is too nice or too thin-skinned. Whitmarsh is being intelligent and he has done well in making peace with the FIA in ways which would not have been possible if Ron Dennis was still the Team Principal. Whitmarsh knew he had to go easy after the Hamilton-Dave Ryan debacle in the 2009 Aussie GP. Any subsequent transgression, however big or small, would have been severely punished by the FIA. McLaren just doesn't have the political clout of Ferrari. Whitmarsh did very well in holding the Team together in 2009.

Furthermore, Whitmarsh is, by many accounts, a much better manager of people than Ron Dennis was. With Ron Dennis, it was his way or the highway. I would even speculate Adrian Newey would still be the Technical Director of McLaren if Whitmarsh was managing McLaren at the team. Whitmarsh would have found a way to structure the engineering side of the Team to make Newey stay. Sure, they would still have lost those Championships because the MP4-19,20,21 were too fragile and Ferrari were better.

The lack of success is mostly technical not managerial (you can blame the structure of the engineering side of the team). As a forum member had remarked, "Newey has the best design for the current regulations". I don't know how Whitmarsh's theoretical departure would fix this..................

In recent years, McLaren has always started the season with an inferior and underdeveloped car. They constantly have to play catch up throughout the season.

A more prevalent question is: Who can come up with a better design than Adrian Newey?

User avatar
Steven
Owner
Joined: 19 Aug 2002, 18:32
Location: Belgium

Re: Martin W has to go!

Post

I don't think team principals really have that much influence on the eventual cars. In fact all they do is talk with the technical directors and some of the leading engineers/mechanis to decide what action is there to be taken.

If the car is not up to it, I don't think there's much to blame on Whitmarsh. I believe he represents McLaren well. At least he's a nice bloke who talks sense from time to time, contrary to Vijay Mallya or Tony Fernandes who think about their own businesses first.

Team principals do decide however who works for the team, or at least they greatly influence it. And for that matter, one can hardly say McLaren are incompetent or have a crappy driver pairing. I think not.

User avatar
ringo
240
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Martin Whitmarsh has to go!

Post

Right the technical directors are more hands on.
what i think though is that when it comes to looking out for the teams best interest, at all costs, even political costs, Whitmarsh is too fair and balanced.

Today we saw how ferrari politicked their way into making their car faster without even having to improve the car much technically.
It's that kind of attitude that i like with ferrari. They get every last drop of advantage they can, on and off the track.
It was well played politics in the way how the regs suddenly fell into their lap and they didn't even say a word about them in the public eye.

Ruthlessness, though inherently evil, helps in F1. Flavio is pefect proof.
You just do what you have to do to get your car closer to the front.

watching Martin play one for all and all for one, 3 musketeers, is kind of annoying knowing that he is putting Mclaren on even terms with teams that aren't on the same level as them. He needs to give his team an unfair advantage that brings them up to redbull's level.
For Sure!!

Nickel
Nickel
9
Joined: 02 Jun 2011, 18:10
Location: London Mountain, BC

Re: Martin Whitmarsh has to go!

Post

ringo wrote:Right the technical directors are more hands on.
what i think though is that when it comes to looking out for the teams best interest, at all costs, even political costs, Whitmarsh is too fair and balanced.

Today we saw how ferrari politicked their way into making their car faster without even having to improve the car much technically.
It's that kind of attitude that i like with ferrari. They get every last drop of advantage they can, on and off the track.
It was well played politics in the way how the regs suddenly fell into their lap and they didn't even say a word about them in the public eye.

Ruthlessness, though inherently evil, helps in F1. Flavio is pefect proof.
You just do what you have to do to get your car closer to the front.

watching Martin play one for all and all for one, 3 musketeers, is kind of annoying knowing that he is putting Mclaren on even terms with teams that aren't on the same level as them. He needs to give his team an unfair advantage that brings them up to redbull's level.
What kind of unfair addvantage? Unfair, like find the next Adrian Newey, or unfair more towards the cheating spectrum? Although you like the Ferrari way, I would venture to say their way is what makes them so unpopular with many. Although the current saga has unfolded to their favor, I speculate that it is a long ways off winning them too many races. I would argue that attempting to manipulate the order, regardless in a single race or in a season, is rather unsporting and it has been some time since it did them much good.


Martin Whitmarsh has had a hand into putting together what is arguably the best driver pairing on the grid, and a team which has produced a design which is not a copy of anything, but has been the second fastest package for much of the season. A team which was also able to quickly get on top of this years innovations, unlike ferrari, whom apparently have had a difficult time with their ebd. Rather than assemble a better team, they have allegedly had the issue curtailed.


For me, I see ruthlessness in F1 as the desire to exploit every loophole you can, to drop an underperforming driver without batting an eye, to shake up your team if they need it, and so forth. The Ferrari brand of ruthlessness, the one you accuse Whitmarsh of lacking, contains to much coniving to attract admiration or respect from me.

Lorenzo_Bandini
Lorenzo_Bandini
11
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 12:15

Re: Martin Whitmarsh has to go!

Post

Because Mclaren brand is better ?

2006 ==>> Ron Dennis complain about Mass Dumper..
2007 ==>> Spygate
2009 ==>> Hamilton lie to the FIA
2010 ==>> They complain all the second part of the year about the flexi wing of RB just because they weren't able to do the same...
2011 == >> Once again, they complain about RBR while their car is slower and slower.

When Mclaren is slower, they complain about the stuff of the faster car ( 2006, 2010, 2011 )

They have just to do like Ferrari : shut up and develop their car. Ferrari never complain about flexi wing, they made one, Ferrari never complain about off throttle engime mapping, they develop their car.

They didn't talk about other car, they didn't attempt to manipulate the championship like Mclaren did ( but failed ) last year with flexi wing test after Spa.

Before Valencia, Button said that RBR won't dominate... We saw that.. Last year, before Spa they said that new test about flexi wing will hurt badly RBR etc... We saw that..

I don't know why they seems more interested about other car rather than their car, perhaps it's why Ferrari and Red Bull develop their car faster than them since 2009 ( for RBR ) 2010 ( for Ferrari ).

2011 is like 2010, the same hype about Mclaren at the start of the season, and at the middle of the season, they were outpaced by the poor team Ferrari, the poor team too conservative, too silly to innovate...

User avatar
SiLo
139
Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

Re: Martin Whitmarsh has to go!

Post

I think Whitmarsh is doing a fine job thanks, he can't control the FIA, and he can't control what Red Bull do which is why his team keeps getting beaten. I think there is more to come from this car along the way, Red Bull will have to change soon enough, especially with new regs down the road.

Also, can you at least make one informative, thought-through post that generally makes sense please? Your drivel is rather irritating.
Felipe Baby!