Martin Whitmarsh has to go!

[clarkiesyeah]

Whilst I agree with the fact that MW has no baring on Newey's design being better than the rest, his influence on the general running of the team is entirely his responsibility.

Some of the errors committed by Mclaren over the past three years have been real shockers, particularly in the strategy department but elswhere too(ie: Leaving a bung in Jensons radiator duct, Monaco 2010).

How many more times are we going to see this top team make blindingly obvious wrong choices on tyres or weather? Today was a perfect example, sending Hamilton out on a set of used option tyres when rain was iminant and dry running was at a premium. Beyond stupid. Whitmarsh has to answer to this.

Under his watch this team has moved from being a ruthless winner to a fumbling, whinging loser. It saddens me to the very core of my being.
Should he go? He should certainly grow a pair and put his drivers before the sponsors, tell them:

No, you cant have lewis or jenson for your day long advertising promo event. Thats if you want to sponsor winners not also-rans.

[wesley123]

Whilst I agree with the fact that MW has no baring on Newey's design being better than the rest, his influence on the general running of the team is entirely his responsibility.

Some of the errors committed by Mclaren over the past three years have been real shockers, particularly in the strategy department but elswhere too(ie: Leaving a bung in Jensons radiator duct, Monaco 2010).

Humans make mistakes mister, how many times did we see unsafe releases at pitstops, errors at pit stops or other errors by other teams? Thereby Button was actually getting away fairly well with the mistake, if the safetycar didnt show up he would have made it easily until the first pit stops, where they could have removed it.

How many more times are we going to see this top team make blindingly obvious wrong choices on tyres or weather? Today was a perfect example, sending Hamilton out on a set of used option tyres when rain was iminant and dry running was at a premium. Beyond stupid. Whitmarsh has to answer to this.

We have seen Renault doing slow laps on tires to prepare them so they would last a bit longer and show better performance, maybe here too? If you think they made a mistake you had to be stupid, it was already raining when they went out, even in the pit lane and everybody saw it.

Under his watch this team has moved from being a ruthless winner to a fumbling, whinging loser. It saddens me to the very core of my being.

Indeed the only whiners on the grid, these McLaren guys constantly cry how about rules on track are unfair for them, and how the Renault engine has less power then the rest, oh wait.

Should he go? He should certainly grow a pair and put his drivers before the sponsors, tell them:

No, you cant have lewis or jenson for your day long advertising promo event. Thats if you want to sponsor winners not also-rans.

Yes indeed, would be smart, then vodafone doesnt extend the contract, making them have what, like 200 million less a year? that would sure give them a shot at the world championships!

These PR events are driven by vodafone, and McLaren obviously get a huge amount of money from vodafone by participating in these events.

[Pierce89]

internetf1fan has to go!

+1

[Pierce89]

Please do NOT close this thread: it's great to see some irrational hate posts NOT aimed at Ferrari!
=D>

=D> =D> =D> =D> HOW TRUE!! =D> =D> =D>

[Pierce89]

Right the technical directors are more hands on.
what i think though is that when it comes to looking out for the teams best interest, at all costs, even political costs, Whitmarsh is too fair and balanced.

Today we saw how ferrari politicked their way into making their car faster without even having to improve the car much technically.
It's that kind of attitude that i like with ferrari. They get every last drop of advantage they can, on and off the track.
It was well played politics in the way how the regs suddenly fell into their lap and they didn't even say a word about them in the public eye.

Ruthlessness, though inherently evil, helps in F1. Flavio is pefect proof.
You just do what you have to do to get your car closer to the front.

watching Martin play one for all and all for one, 3 musketeers, is kind of annoying knowing that he is putting Mclaren on even terms with teams that aren't on the same level as them. He needs to give his team an unfair advantage that brings them up to redbull's level.

What kind of unfair addvantage? Unfair, like find the next Adrian Newey, or unfair more towards the cheating spectrum? Although you like the Ferrari way, I would venture to say their way is what makes them so unpopular with many. Although the current saga has unfolded to their favor, I speculate that it is a long ways off winning them too many races. I would argue that attempting to manipulate the order, regardless in a single race or in a season, is rather unsporting and it has been some time since it did them much good.


Martin Whitmarsh has had a hand into putting together what is arguably the best driver pairing on the grid, and a team which has produced a design which is not a copy of anything, but has been the second fastest package for much of the season. A team which was also able to quickly get on top of this years innovations, unlike ferrari, whom apparently have had a difficult time with their ebd. Rather than assemble a better team, they have allegedly had the issue curtailed.


For me, I see ruthlessness in F1 as the desire to exploit every loophole you can, to drop an underperforming driver without batting an eye, to shake up your team if they need it, and so forth. The Ferrari brand of ruthlessness, the one you accuse Whitmarsh of lacking, contains to much coniving to attract admiration or respect from me.

How the hell did you manage to turn this in to a Ferrari bashing thread. Ferrari was not behind the EBD clamdown. That much has been established.

[internetf1fan]

I spoke about Ferrari using FOTA for their advantage before

"Christian Danner @ RTL: I was sitting in Sauber motorhome before the TWG meeting, when Ferrari people came by and left instructions to vote "no" on the question of reverting to pre-Silverstone rule interpretation.
"

On the other hand, MW behaves like FOTAs pawn.

Let me ask you guys again, What was MW thinking when he pushed for these regulation changes when he MUST have known that they were going to hurt McLaren really bad and would risk their second place in the WCC to Ferrari?

[wunderkind]

I spoke about Ferrari using FOTA for their advantage before

"Christian Danner @ RTL: I was sitting in Sauber motorhome before the TWG meeting, when Ferrari people came by and left instructions to vote "no" on the question of reverting to pre-Silverstone rule interpretation.
"

On the other hand, MW behaves like FOTAs pawn.

Let me ask you guys again, What was MW thinking when he pushed for these regulation changes when he MUST have known that they were going to hurt McLaren really bad and would risk their second place in the WCC to Ferrari?

The Ferrari-Sauber relationship is different. Sauber is allowed to make minor decisions on their on device whereas they have to defer to Ferrari on any major significant changes in technical rules and regulations.

As for the assertions that Whitmarsh has not been ruthless enough in pushing for technical changes to McLaren's advantage. I actually don't think it is the lack of machiavellian genes on Whitmarsh's part. I think it is due to Whitmarsh's total and absolute confidence (sometimes bordering on arrogance) in the capabilties of his technical team. Whitmarsh totally believes McLaren has the best engineers in the business and they can rise above any technical challenge (well..........most of the time).

I believe the time has come for McLaren to swallow their pride a little and just clone the Red Bull RB7 and add some of their secret sauce to the design.

[ringo]

Ferrari won.
That is what i am talking about!!

The one time the rules change for them, they maximise.

Gotta love the competitive spirit.

[munudeges]

How the hell did you manage to turn this in to a Ferrari bashing thread. Ferrari was not behind the EBD clamdown. That much has been established.

I'd love to know where this has been 'established'.

[munudeges]

Apparently, there was an amusing episode in McLaren's press conference where Whitmarsh made a bizarre eight minute speech about what's gone wrong and admitting they've been hurt in an apparent half-arsed attempt at rallying the troops and reassuring sponsors. Jenson Button then turned around and said something to the effect of "Nice speech Martin. Just like Winston Churchill" with more than a hint of sarcasm.

Ouch.

I still maintain that McLaren need to concentrate totally on their on-track performance rather than sending Button and Hamilton on photoshoots, galavanting around on jetskis and making sure they have watches to put on on the rare occasions they're on the podium. You might dismiss it but that kind of thing is usually a good indication of what goes on in an organisation internally and where it has its priorities.

[sAx]

... At least Ron knew what it took to win championships.

Certainly a ring of truth to your claim. Ron for sure has a different approach to his man management (ala pitwall conversation with Giorgio Asconelli about reducing Senna's mix in the season with McLaren doc 1993), but it gets results! The drivers (especially Lewis), have been asked to over compensate for inherent lack of speed or poor strategy calls over the last 3yrs, hence increases in driver contact and frustration as they attempt to compete at the sharp end.

In defence of Martin Whitmarsh, his handling of ex-Team Manager Dave Ryan shows that he does not lack a steely bite, but F1 appears to respond best to Zeus' autocratic approach (Ron's), rather than Athena's network democracy (Martin's)

I dropped an earlier note to Mr Dennis, needless to say I am unaware of any reply if he ever received it :


-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 10 March 2011 18:10
To: ronxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject:

Hi Ron,

From the days of the Automobile Sport article 'room at the top', you have ably carried the banner for all that is McLaren. The F1 succession plan is not working and you need to return back to where you belong. At the top!

All the Best

Rgds
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

xxxxxxxx


It is not too late for Mr Dennis to take back executive control of 'his' team.


sAx

[xpensive]

Funny discussion this, I can clearly recall xactly the same in 1995 when Marlboro McLaren Mercedes went through that terrible Mansell xperiment. Ron should leave and be replaced with Roger Penske, I think was the wildest of all rumours!

[Ciro Pabón]

internetf1fan has to go!

+1

+2

Why are we allowing this? Because it's amusing, donskar? Not to me. This site is polluted enough with angry Hamboys.

Lewis Humbleton and Jenson Button can't tune a guitar, much less a car, that's the main problem at Macca as I see it. Anyone can drive a car in a fast way, it takes a life time to drive a car to be faster at every race. That's the lesson of F1.

Blaming Withmarsh (for the love of Pete!), the other (crashed) drivers, the marshalls, the FIA, the global warming, ANYTHING but the loser driver team they have become at McLaren it's a sport these days.

It reminds me of Wimbledon and British tennis players. Either you pinpoint the cause of your problems or you are in deep trouble for the rest of your life.

I'd say McLaren needs a team with hunger and technical ability, not a team of self complacent "best driver in the world and his sidekick" that delivers d1ck... They have the speed, they have the car, they have the races in front. Development, development, development.

And certainly, we don't need another thread by self declared fans (oh, my, god) that only looks for arguments to keep the tainted image of their idol in the clear.

A man, a grown up man does a thing first and foremost: accept responsibility when leading a team, even if it's not his fault. An F1 follower at F1 Technical does not criticize drivers nor teams, but try to learn from the good ones and support the ones in disgrace until they recover.

So, Withmarsh, Hamilton and Button and everybody at Macca, please, keep your coolness, grind your teeth and push more. The true Macca fans, the ones that doesn't complain but truly understand that after the storm there is a sun, they will keep silent and keep the hope. Criticism is going to rain, maintain your head high, simply do it. You can do it, together. Go, Withmarsh!

[wesley123]

... At least Ron knew what it took to win championships.

sAx

So if i understand it correctly, because Withmarsh has yet to win a championship he isnt good enough? If I'm correct it took Dennis 4 years to win a championship, and this is Wihmarsh 3rd year...

This is just stupid, you guys seem to think withmarsh is god and will win the championshp in his first try, it doesnt work that way.

[Ciro Pabón]

+1

I would have put it this way, dear Wesley:

"You guys seem to think"... but you don't.