Martin Whitmarsh has to go!

[sAx]

... At least Ron knew what it took to win championships.

sAx

So if i understand it correctly, because Withmarsh has yet to win a championship he isnt good enough? If I'm correct it took Dennis 4 years to win a championship, and this is Wihmarsh 3rd year...

This is just stupid, you guys seem to think withmarsh is god and will win the championshp in his first try, it doesnt work that way.

The culture and efficacy of McLaren from Project-4 conception is Ron Dennis, which was my point, rather than the championship vacuum of Martin Whitmarsh. So you misunderstood my perspective.

sAx

[wesley123]

I understood it a long time ago already and i just think it is plain rubbish. Whitmarsh has been in the team for a really long time, he knows the whole McLaren Company out of his head.

Whitmarsh is a different guy then Dennis and with that comes a different approach, if you like it or not. To state that Whitmarsh' approach is wrong with o proof whatsoever is just stupid, if the shareholders of the company didnt thought he was right for the job they wouldnt have chosen him. simple as that

[Ciro Pabón]

Your perspective is noted, sAx, and BTW, welcome to this forum, I have not had the opportunity to do so.

Thanks for the contribution. Any positive suggestions? If not Whitmarsh, who?

Who will be in your ideal team? Please, instead of "but", can you use "what if"?

Instead of complaining, it is very good and honorable to suggest improvements. Given your ample knowledge of the team innards and your (perhaps) contacts in the team, what does the team think?

Are they looking for someone else? I would not advice to change people in the middle of a crisis. Instead I would change the way things are done, but, it is (apparently) your team, not mine, so you might be right, even if other persons with more experience in this forum do not share your position.

I would say: help them with your support and your faith, there are few other things you can do, unless you actually work there. Faith moves mountains, isn't it? As people says in Colombia (I'm paraphrasing here), you can lose money, you can lose health, you can lose a championship but if you lose faith (or if you lose a true friend), you lose everything.

So, for angered fans, I repeat slowly: Hamilton... and Button!... have... a... chance. Never... give... up. Never.

You know, many people in this forum admire Britons for their sporting spirit. This means to be graceful and smile in defeat, in case people from other nations do not grasp in its entirety this admirable concept...

Do not surrender to the disappointment. The bravest the bull, the better the bull fight, as we say in Spain.

I can tell you (I also manage a small karting team) that this attitude disconcert your opponents and makes everything easier for the people you are obliged to suppport.

... or as I said elsewhere: if they are called fans, why aren't they cooler?

So, from a person that is disgusted by the thought of supporting a soulless corporation, call it STR or Force India, GO WITHMARSH!

They say people comes and goes and the institution remains. That is false. People is everything. So, forgive me if I also say, GO NEWEY! GO, ALL THE PEOPLE THAT IS WORKING THEIR COLLECTIVE BUTTS OFF for my entertainment!

[sAx]

...Whitmarsh is a different guy then Dennis and with that comes a different approach, if you like it or not. To state that Whitmarsh' approach is wrong...

If you had actually bothered to read what I said above, you would have seen that we actually agreed! Nothing to do with 'wrong' approach. Efficacy was the term I used, hence 'effectiveness'. If Mr Dennis (shareholder), did not think Mr Whitmarsh could do the job, then I would agree that Whitmarsh would not have got the vote. However it is not the same as saying that Mr Dennis is correct! Mr Dennis who incidentally is the CEO of the entire group. Having mused himself with his 12C and new MPC, my view is that he should come back 'downstairs'.

sAx

[fausto cedros]

Well, i do like Ciro's view. But...
In hard times, when others have the best interpretation of the rules, and you have to play catch up, one of the conditions to succeed is try not to make avoidable errors and make the most out of any race. I really don't think that in the last years track management has been up to the game. I think that last year, on thursday before Monza, LH had still a good chance for the wdc, albeit not in the fastest car. And the team (driver+ engineers) screw it trying a gamble. Thereafter, any race until the end was a collection of gambles that rarely paid dividends, and that's what's still happening in my opinion. I think that this aspect could well have been improved in recent times and that's in my opinion an urgent team weakness.

[sAx]

Your perspective is noted, sAx, and BTW, welcome to this forum, ...

Thanks for the welcome, however belated! I have 'lurked' around the F1technical musings for the last 4yrs, but much prefer the '2-ears, 1-mouth approach'.

Cheers

sAx

[axle]

internetf1fan has to go!

+1

+100000000000000000000000000000000

I mean just what in 150 posts hasn't been trying to light a match under a non-issue?

[Alge7a]

ill chip in my ten pence worth. I dont agree with the original post. However it might be true that MW suffers from nice guys dont finish first. Rons a moody sod at best and was renowned for pushing the team to extreem limits. Although this is not the major problem. MW took over as leader when Mclaren lost its main winning ingredients, ie 24 hour a day wind tunnel use. Where money can make allot of progress. Ferrari have been caught by this too. Also Mc have lost allot of head staff, one in "lie-gate", Newey to Rb and the Fry to Ferrari. MW's response to this was that new people would have a chance to take there place. Thats clearly not working. Paddy seems to be struggling also. Lewis knows he's in a team that is struggling at the factory and loosing confidence on the track. Which is clearly making the team nervous and then more mistakes happen. Ferraris way out is politics and Mclaren have not got a way out as yet. hats of to Ferrari. The car does seem easy on the harder tyres now and that's engineering not politics. All in all Rb is newer, fresher, better run and with a great attitude and is working well on the confidence of last season. Vettel is matching them in that, leaving everyone else looking a bit off the pace.

[sAx]

Thanks for the contribution. Any positive suggestions? If not Whitmarsh, who?

I know Ron Dennis head-hunted Martin Whitmarsh from BAe Systems and much of McLaren's processes an quality mechanisms were instigated by him (Whitmarsh), so one could never downplay his contribution to McLaren successes since the late 80's. However he remains at best a No.2 foil to a more effective leader. Sadly I do not see Paddy Lowe or Jonathan Neale being any better, as they seem to stem from the same matrix 'politically nicey' sort of management style. In a strange way Christian Horner has 'out managed' McLaren niceyness over the last 3yrs. So a strong charismatic leader is required and no matter in which direction you look along the pitlane, there are not many of them about.

sAx

I hope the drivers stay (particularly Lewis) as they are pushing each other on and that coupled with a more judicious management approach, will bring the competitiveness that is the team's Raison d'être.

Generally try to avoid perceived PF1 wisdom, but the "McLaren are Nuts" article is a reasonable assessment - http://www.planetf1.com/race-features/7 ... he-Brit-GP - to which you could also add Monaco Q3 qualifying

[Richard]

What a silly premise - this is the man who is leading the only team to threaten RB for much of the season, and whose team is 2nd in the WCC. Yes they have dropped a bit in the last few weeks, but all F1 teams have ups and downs in a season.

As for Ron Dennis exploiting team orders, I recall Ron threw away the WDC by not having team orders with Alonso/Hamilton. Also team orders were absent with Senna/Prost.

[munudeges]

Funny discussion this, I can clearly recall xactly the same in 1995 when Marlboro McLaren Mercedes went through that terrible Mansell xperiment. Ron should leave and be replaced with Roger Penske, I think was the wildest of all rumours!

Right you are X.......but you really don't want to be going through to many of those episodes do you? In fact, that whole sorry period was kicked off by the ill-advised Peugeot adventure in 1994, and who came along in 1997 to turn it around? Adrian Newey.

[multisync]

Thanks for the contribution. Any positive suggestions? If not Whitmarsh, who?

I know Ron Dennis head-hunted Martin Whitmarsh from BAe Systems and much of McLaren's processes an quality mechanisms were instigated by him (Whitmarsh), so one could never downplay his contribution to McLaren successes since the late 80's. However he remains at best a No.2 foil to a more effective leader. Sadly I do not see Paddy Lowe or Jonathan Neale being any better, as they seem to stem from the same matrix 'politically nicey' sort of management style. In a strange way Christian Horner has 'out managed' McLaren niceyness over the last 3yrs. So a strong charismatic leader is required and no matter in which direction you look along the pitlane, there are not many of them about.

sAx

I hope the drivers stay (particularly Lewis) as they are pushing each other on and that coupled with a more judicious management approach, will bring the competitiveness that is the team's Raison d'être.

Generally try to avoid perceived PF1 wisdom, but the "McLaren are Nuts" article is a reasonable assessment - http://www.planetf1.com/race-features/7 ... he-Brit-GP - to which you could also add Monaco Q3 qualifying

I think Simon Roberts is the next man to lead Mclaren. Map a time line when he was at FI and it clearly shows the team went up as soon as he arrived and has been heading down since Mclaren pulled in back to Woking.

[CHT]

Mclaren might have been overstretching themselves with their ambitious plans for Mclaren Automotives, where MW is also the deputy chairman on top of his role as CEO of Mclaren Group.

[sAx]

claren might have been overstretching themselves with their ambitious plans for Mclaren Automotives, where MW is also the deputy chairman on top of his role as CEO of Mclaren Group.

Agreed. There was a noticeable dip in form of the F1 team with the launch of the F1 car, although it could be said to have compensated to a degree with the Le Mans win. Ron Dennis (Group Executive Chairman,who I incorrectly labelled Group CEO above), has become more visible gracing his presence at the last few GP's, so I'm sure he shares concerns over his teams ability to out-smart itself. And as you say may need to acknowledge that ambitious plans for the 12C and MPC manufacturing centre have overstretched to a degree. Though this latter point may have little to do with some of the strategies which have been employed by the F1 team of late.

sAx

[WhiteBlue]

I would leave McLaren's business to McLaren's corporate officers to sort out. This is not a suitable issue for discussion by outsiders IMO. I agree with Ciro in that regard.