Italian GP 2011 - Autodromo Nazionale Monza

[beelsebob]

first points for Senna! Any thought? Also what happened to Liuzzi? Ruined may people's race!

Personally, Senna is my driver of the day – kept his nose mostly clean, made some really nice moves, and brought the car home in a respectable position. Good on him.

[vall]

as for Shu-LH battle. I think you are allowed to move to defend your position as many times as you like. The restriction of one change of direction is only IN the breaking zone. I am not sure Shu moved more than ones under breaking.

[Intego]

WHy wasn't shumacher penalized for moving twice twice?

According to the Speedtv's Bob Varsha the stewards were not requested to by race control. Don't shoot the messenger Ringo. I think this is why F1 is referred to as a circus. Hobbs in particular was very critical of Mike's defense.

What needs to be looked into is why the FIA told BRAWN behind the scenes of an officieal investigation to lose a track position.
...
Why is the FIA asking SHumacher to lose a position to Hamilton when nothing like that happened?

Why didn't shumacher receive an official investigation and a drive through penalty, for blocking, not once, but twice.

I watched BBC, too. LH complained about MSC's double moves and his team told him they were onto that. It was never said that they complained about it to the stewards. Even the commentators wondered why nothing happened. Maybe it was a "solution" between two Mercedes powered teams.

[timbo]

It is factual that he moved twice in two instances.
But what was worse is that the FIA had Brawn signal Shu to give back the position.

You din't hear Brawn hinting at Micheal?
The FIA basically told him to yeild position or get a drive through penalty. But we are making it easy for you, so your race isn't messed up.

This has nothing to do with driving hard. I am taking about the double standards in the sport.

Excuse me, but what penalty did Hamilton recieve when he moved like 6 times ahead of Petrov @ Malaysia last year?
Such violations are viewed like cutting a chicane. Have you ever seen a drive-through for cutting a chicane? The only times it happened I remember (Alonso, British GP last year) was when driver failed to give up position.

[beelsebob]

as for Shu-LH battle. I think you are allowed to move to defend your position as many times as you like. The restriction of one change of direction is only IN the breaking zone. I am not sure Shu moved more than ones under breaking.

Why was LH penalised in malaysia for moving twice on the straight then?

[beelsebob]

It is factual that he moved twice in two instances.
But what was worse is that the FIA had Brawn signal Shu to give back the position.

You din't hear Brawn hinting at Micheal?
The FIA basically told him to yeild position or get a drive through penalty. But we are making it easy for you, so your race isn't messed up.

This has nothing to do with driving hard. I am taking about the double standards in the sport.

Excuse me, but what penalty did Hamilton recieve when he moved like 6 times ahead of Petrov @ Malaysia last year?

None – notably the rule was subsequently changed banning what LH did there

[ringo]

as for Shu-LH battle. I think you are allowed to move to defend your position as many times as you like. The restriction of one change of direction is only IN the breaking zone. I am not sure Shu moved more than ones under breaking.

You have it the other way round. In fact you have it all wrong.

You are allowed to take the braking line in the braking zone, but you cannot flounder all over the track as you wish.

SHu clearly broke the rules twice. All commentators saw this. Clear as day.

[MrBlacky]

Yep, he may broke this rule, but he never shuts the door for Lewis when latter one was able to came alongside.
I remember it clearly, that Schumacher always had left room for Hamilton when he was beside him. Schu only siwtched back to racing line when Hamilton was still behind him and thats very legal for me.

[beelsebob]

Yep, he may broke this rule, but he never shuts the door for Lewis when latter one was able to came alongside.
I remember it clearly, that Schumacher always had left room for Hamilton when he was beside him. Schu only siwtched back to racing line when Hamilton was still behind him and thats very legal for me.

So what Hamilton did in Malaysia to Alonso was legal too?

[Mr.S]

WHy wasn't shumacher penalized for moving twice twice?

It seems the FIA just told brawn to let Shumi Give Lewis the position as punishment.

I see that as a bit corrupt. Instead of a 20s penalty, he just gives up a place.
It's been 2 races now 3 offending drivers involved with Hamilton, get no reaction from the stewards or some non existent punishment.

Shumacher clear gave a position back instead of serving a drive through. And this was way after he messed up up Hamilton's race with the double defending.

Somethings not right with these stewards.

Aside from SHu vs Ham, boring race.
Vettel overtake was great, and showed what insane level the redbull is at.

Actually Hamilton completely screwed up with Kobayashi,misjudged the breaking point & should have been penalized if Kobayashi would have been taken out.

Add to that HAMILTON deserved 2 STOP GO penalties for Monaco atleast 1 for the Maldonado which was by far the worst move of the year.In which straight did MSC twice move back & forth?? When he is breaking onto to a chicane that is not called changing the line twice.

[MrBlacky]

Yep, he may broke this rule, but he never shuts the door for Lewis when latter one was able to came alongside.
I remember it clearly, that Schumacher always had left room for Hamilton when he was beside him. Schu only siwtched back to racing line when Hamilton was still behind him and thats very legal for me.

So what Hamilton did in Malaysia to Alonso was legal too?

Can't remember what scene you mean, only the Ham/Pet situation in Malaysia and that was clearly blocking, because Hamilton didn't even give Petrov the chance to go alongside.

[ringo]

Excuse me, but what penalty did Hamilton recieve when he moved like 6 times ahead of Petrov @ Malaysia last year?
Such violations are viewed like cutting a chicane. Have you ever seen a drive-through for cutting a chicane? The only times it happened I remember (Alonso, British GP last year) was when driver failed to give up position.

You need to read the regs a bit more carefully.

Let's keep a cool head about this, bringing up all these little things out of malice of Hamilton isn't allowing you to get the point of the discussion.

Let me brake it down:

A sudden deffending move is in reaction to an attacker. ie you move when the attacker makes a move. You only get one move by the rules.

Petrov @ Malaysia, was not in reaction. Hamilton did not react to Petrov going to one side.
He moved first and Petrov reacted. He waited for Petrov to settle, then he moved again, then Petrov reacted, try to stay in the toe. This is more to do with breaking the slip stream than blocking. This is legal, hence the sudden fabrication of this weaving rule, which is BS IMO.


Today we have a blatant case of shumacher blocking the whole afternoon.

That has nothing to do with chicanes and weaving.
You don't make more than 1 defending move. That is totally clear.

Everyone else see the logic in the discussion?
Take your fan boy hats off for a second.

Mr. S you don't know the rules clearly. Talking about leaving room, when that isn't even the move in question.

[raymondu999]

Oh dear Lord. It's happening again. As it invariably does. To all race threads. Sigh. Can we leave past events as they are, and just discuss what was good in the race?

[vall]

It is factual that he moved twice in two instances.
But what was worse is that the FIA had Brawn signal Shu to give back the position.

You din't hear Brawn hinting at Micheal?
The FIA basically told him to yeild position or get a drive through penalty. But we are making it easy for you, so your race isn't messed up.

This has nothing to do with driving hard. I am taking about the double standards in the sport.

Excuse me, but what penalty did Hamilton recieve when he moved like 6 times ahead of Petrov @ Malaysia last year?
Such violations are viewed like cutting a chicane. Have you ever seen a drive-through for cutting a chicane? The only times it happened I remember (Alonso, British GP last year) was when driver failed to give up position.

him moves were not triggered by attack from Petrov. If u attach you expect the other guy to try to block you. But not driving left and right as mad

[timbo]

Petrov @ Malaysia, was not in reaction. Hamilton did not react to Petrov going to one side.
He moved first and Petrov reacted. He waited for Petrov to settle, then he moved again, then Petrov reacted, try to stay in the toe. This is more to do with breaking the slip stream than blocking. This is legal, hence the sudden fabrication of this weaving rule, which is BS IMO.

But what the point of breaking the slipstream?

That has nothing to do with chicanes and weaving.
You don't make more than 1 defending move. That is totally.

Everyone else see the logic in the discussion?
Take your fan boy hats off for a second.

Did you leave yours?
Schu gave up place to Hamilton.
What's the problem?
Drive-through is imposed for causing an accident.