Italian GP 2011 - Autodromo Nazionale Monza

[ringo]

Here's the simple question.

No past events and rabid driver attacks please. Just answer the question Mr. S and whoever else is reading.

1. Did Shumacher make 2 defending moves in 2 different instances?

2. What is the penalty for making such moves?

3. Why is a penalty reserved for overtaking by leaving and re entering the track subversively being substituted for #2 question's penalty?

*remember deal with these 3 questions only, and stick to the thread topic, Monza 2011.

[ringo]

Did you leave yours?
Schu gave up place to Hamilton.
What's the problem?
Drive-through is imposed for causing an accident.

Ok, then why did he do this?
Looks like we are getting somewhere, slowly but surely.

Got to spoon feed these posters you know.

[HampusA]

Forget it guys, this guy will die for Hamilton if he could.

That´s how serious it is. It´s impossible to speak to these types of fanboys.
Almost a stalker effect without the stalking.

[Mr.S]

Anyways Monza 2011 for me proves once again that Hamilton does not have "IT". A very quick race with sub-human intelligence who would probably never be one of the greats. Would not have half the composure MSC had when he was being lapped around by Hamilton & Vettel. I wold like to see Lewis's reaction in those situations.


Anyways Lewis does not have the 1 lap raw speed as Vettel(who is absolutely the best qualifier since Senna). Neither does he have the intelligence & patience or Button or the absolute package that Alonso is.

Guess he should be happy being a No. 2 to Button for this season. Button has got Hamilton's measure. Lewis's raw speed is barely giving a tenth or a couple over Jenson.

Guess Lewis should be happy that being a 1 TIME CHAMPION. That is where he belongs.

[timbo]

Ok, then why did he do this?
Looks like we are getting somewhere, slowly but surely.

I never said Schu didn't do anything against current racing code. What I argued about is your "get him a drive-through" thing.

[vall]

Here's the simple question.

No past events and rabid driver attacks please. Just answer the question Mr. S and whoever else is reading.

1. Did Shumacher make 2 defending moves in 2 different instances?

As I said it is only forbidden in the breaking zone! Otherwise you can move more than once to defend position

EDIT: OK, my wrong. I obviously missed that change:

20) DRIVING
20.1 The driver must drive the car alone and unaided.
20.2 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as more than one change of direction to defend a position,
deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.

before it only applied in the breaking zone. Honestly, I see nothing wrong if you change position more than once as a result of other driving attempting an overtake

[aral]

[/quote]

As I said it is only forbidden in the breaking zone! Otherwise you can move more than once to defend position[/quote]

As far as I can ascertain, the rules permit only two blocking moves on the track. Schumacher made more than that at certain parts of the circuit.

[ringo]

Vall you can't move as much as you like outside of the braking zone.

It's good we are looking at this, seems most have an idea about the rules, but not the exact wording.

You cannot defend more than once, ever.

Even in the braking zone, your change of line has to be in accordance with making the corner. It cannot be to react to an attacker.

I'm ignoring the fanboy and stalker accusations above your post. It has nothing to do with Monza 2011 or the regulations.

[ringo]

As far as I can ascertain, the rules permit only two blocking moves on the track. Schumacher made more than that at certain parts of the circuit.

One actually.

[vall]

Vall you can't move as much as you like outside of the braking zone.

It's good we are looking at this, seems most have an idea about the rules, but not the exact wording.

You cannot defend more than once, ever.

Even in the braking zone, your change of line has to be in accordance with making the corner. It cannot be to react to an attacker.

I'm ignoring the fanboy and stalker accusations above your post. It has nothing to do with Monza 2011 or the regulations.

so, if you try to put your nose on the right, the defending driver can try to defend by moving right! But, then if the overtaker decides immediately to try on the left, the defender cannot move left?

[raymondu999]

Is it not generally accepted that, if the pursuing driver hasn't even "overlapped" the other driver, as in his front wing isn't alongside the other guys rear wing, you can reposition yourself to the proper racing line in the braking zone? However I could be talking of the wrong move. I'm on business in Indonesia and the coverage here is awful. There is a commercial every 3 minutes, lasting about 1 minute each (yes I timed it)

Can anyone give screenshots/a video link to the move under dispute?

[Intego]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-O-6qI6Vlo[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GankpTy4pCw[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp0BD7b5F_Y[/youtube]

[ringo]

In overtaking you cannot move again in the braking zone for the purpose of defending.
As you are reacting to the attacker with intentions of obstructing him.

Shumacher knows this as well as he always defends in a way so that he doesn't have to do a second move to defend the turn entry.

It's not normal to block to the left then drag to the right then take a left again to enter a left hand chicane.
Can't have your cake and eat.

Do your single move in a way that it puts you on a line that defends the turn entry.

Shumacher is the most experienced at this.

too many examples of single moves on the straights and close down on the apex.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF4uYQt3IFc[/youtube]

this one, both do 1 move in the 2 laps on the back straight, and use it wisely.



So when he was shuffling all over today it reminded me of Canado 2010 when he went Berserk.
He knew better and this is why he gave Lewis the position. He understood the rules.

He didn't let lewis past becuase the Mclaren was faster, Shumacher is not that type of driver. He gave it up, IMO becuase Brawn hinted that the FIA are giving him an offer that's better than a penalty.

I want to know what's behind delivering "plea bargain" penalties.

[raymondu999]

Cheers Intego; so I was talking of the wrong move. Bloody commercials.

Also; just a clip I found of Vettel's slide in Ascari from onboard; absolutely great stuff: http://axisofoversteer.blogspot.com/201 ... fying.html

[Mr.S]

I am not commenting on the stupid plea bargain whiny comments.

According to Brawn - IN Lap 21 MSC made 2 moves to defend his position. It happened only once & not twice unlike some weird fanboy said.


According to Brawn FIA were watching it & send a warning to Brawn that it should not be repeated again.

Unliek Hamilton MSC was not weaving throughout the entire track multiple times. He made 2 moves to defend his position once (unlike Lewis who in the hooning incident).

FIA SEND out a warning & MSC left laodz os space for Hamilton to pass throgh. Sounds fair to me,dont know if it will sound fair to a fanboy who's idol will make 3-4 moves in a straight if needed & multiple times.