Italian GP 2011 - Autodromo Nazionale Monza

[raymondu999]

Because this year McLarens have worn ridiculous overalls at every race/qualifying session? Both drivers have got the same theme of all the McLaren drivers' names. Brundle and Coulthard are somewhere to be found there too. Funnily enough I think the big "name" on Jenson's back is "Prost" as you see Hamilton in the photo with "Senna" across his back.

The McLarens change overalls as often as Vettel changes helmets!

[FW17]

But as far as the comments on Vettel, I have NO PROBLEM believing Fred or Lewis would be even better in the RB7 than Vettel has been. Over the past two years, both have had vastly inferior cars to Vettel yet they occosionally beat him on straight pace, which I don't belive Vettel could have done had the cars been reversed.

You forgot his first win in 2008 Monza was in a torro rosso.

[jeremy]

Sorry for bringing this back to the circuit and technical matters; but since the de la Roggia and Rettifilio have been retrofitted with negative Vallelunga kerns (those massive orange mounds like in the last Canada chicane) how important is kerb riding? They used to have all 4 wheels (with the outside wheels *just* on the edge of the kerb) on the kerbs in pre-09 Monza; so I don't think kerb riding will be as important as it was then; but how important is it? I notice the kerbs are actually still quite high; they're quite "ramped" towards the inside of the corner.

I think they still offer a certain advantage in lap times, but i do believe the FIA is discouraging this for safety and for simply to avoid drivers and teams not getting carried away with doing it all the time. Anyways engineers say its really bad for the transmission. I recall in the 90's not only in Monza but also the old fast Hockenheim, Monaco and the Vedool chicane in Nurburgring... cars riding the kerbs to gain extra fractions. Mclaren and Williams(pre94)or rather Newey cars we're notable on riding the curbs without losing out in stability. I remember slow motion replays Brundle comparing Michael's Ferrari and Mika's car, the Ferrari shaking to bits while the Mclaren was like a Rolls Royce running over some juice box.


-- sorry old vhs shots

[marcush.]

Michael has a very personal view of what is fair in racing. He grew up in the early nineties when a lot of dirty stuff went down by the top drivers. Now he is the only guy of that generation left who takes a very tough "no prisoners" approach. Guys like Barrichello would never fight this hard. It has its pros and cons. Many fans want do see hard fighting but there are als many commentators who would like the racing to be a a lot more cooperative than the Schu does his driving.

I think it was a wise solution by race control to keep a low profile on the issue as the MSC vs HAM fight clearly was the best part of the race. The rest was mainly the typical borefest, where the fastest car drives away. If yopu like the winning driver it is a good race if you don't like him you have a bad race. A bit of a rolling battle keeps you awake through it. lol

Sorry but what Schumacher did was a lot more sophisticated and finely measured than what you could see in 93 with Senna and his brutal defensíve driving cutting
across the guy behind like there is no tomorrow.He did it with Prost and he did it with Schumacher.
what Schumacher showed yesterday was just insane keeping a car behind wich is over a second quicker in the corners just positioning himself to make a move impossible.
You obviously can work only one guy this way ..and Button managed the situation very well ...but compare this with Button vs Vettel a few races back..to stand that sort of pressure AND have fun doing it is quite remarkable.
Considering the many laps those two oments which were not perfectly ok is really unjustified .
As for Barrichello not being prepared to play hardball ..last year in Hungary RUBY was prepared to die for that pass ...and risk the lives of others as well .It was not just Schumacher not giving up easily ...it was also Ruby in need to make a point.

[Mandrake]

I found the race pretty entertaining. Obviously not at the front where Vettel just cruised away after passing Fernando. By the way, no one has commented on how Alonso "pushed" Vettel onto the grass. I didn't see it as a problem, but I also didn't find the MSC HAM incident where MSC closed the door with Lewis on the inside worthy to mention.

I hoped for the MGP to be better on the hards, I'd love to see MSC really be able to fight to the end.

I also did not think that MSC was really bending the rules. He covered the inside line and swept back to the racing line under braking. He was not blocking off Lewis as Lewis never was anywhere near being able to stick the nose inside. In every occasion he was able to, Michael left him space.

Looking forward to the remainder of the races, and seriously hope that MGP will build a proper car for next season!

[raymondu999]

Alonso didn't move; he just gave Vettel half a car's width which Vettel took. It was VERY harsh by Alonso; but it was fair

[Mandrake]

I didn't say it was wrong. When Vettel went the outside route there was more than half a car's width available

Just for comparison, I think it was worse than MSC vs. HAM, but both situations are far away from being critical to my eye

[FrukostScones]

Nice race it was, only the wrong winner too boring... good to see Michael back, reminded me of Alonso versus Schumacher in Imola (other way round, I know)... No really bad moves by Schumacher imo.
I think the problem was in Hamiltons head, after all these incidends and stupid talk by the people he actually tried to tame his aggressiveness...and succeeded, what meant he could not pass Schumacher because he was worried about crashing because he starting thinking. I saw no problem with DRS in this race... what passes were too easy?
And I have no problems with the ham/but overalls for quali, I think they are really funky sometimes.

[raymondu999]

I didn't say it was wrong. When Vettel went the outside route there was more than half a car's width available

Just for comparison, I think it was worse than MSC vs. HAM, but both situations are far away from being critical to my eye

Ah right. I thought you meant, "if we're criticizing MSC vs HAM, why aren't we criticizing ALO vs VET?" Sorry. Took it the wrong way around. I thought of saying 2-3rds car width but it didn't have the same ring as "half a car's width" would

@Frukost - What do you mean other way around? My memory could be failing me but weren't both Imola 05 AND 06 dominated by a boxing match between the two; with 05 positions reversed in 06?

[Mandrake]

Note: This is not intended to bash Hamilton

I didn't like Lewis' interview with the BBC after the race. He was so reticent. He's done everything right in the race. No driving error, just wrong setup. He couldn't pass MSC and got a bit upset about his defending, but I thought it was a bit lame to play the sorehead. He's allowed to express his feelings about the fight with MSC, this time though he supressed all emotions I fear.

[FrukostScones]

Nice race it was, only the wrong winner too boring... good to see Michael back, reminded me of Alonso versus Schumacher in Imola (other way round, I know)... No really bad moves by Schumacher imo.
I think the problem was in Hamiltons head, after all these incidends and stupid talk by the people he actually tried to tame his aggressiveness...and succeeded, what meant he could not pass Schumacher because he was worried about crashing because he starting thinking. I saw no problem with DRS in this race... what passes were too easy?
And I have no problems with the ham/but overalls for quali, I think they are really funky sometimes.

@Raymondu999 i meant 2005 with Alonso defending epiclly and Schumacher attacking (other way round...) sorry, not cleanlly xpressed (Copyright by xpensive).

[mx_tifoso]

Can Alonso hold off Hamilton till the end for a podium place???

LH would need additional 2 or 3 laps ...

One would have done it.....

"The situation was better up against the McLarens: with the Softs, we could defend well, but on the Mediums they still have a significant advantage and I think that if the race had gone on a few more laps, I would have been off the podium."
Podium for Alonso while Massa settles for sixth after bad luck - F1Technical.net

But as far as the comments on Vettel, I have NO PROBLEM believing Fred or Lewis would be even better in the RB7 than Vettel has been. Over the past two years, both have had vastly inferior cars to Vettel yet they occosionally beat him on straight pace, which I don't belive Vettel could have done had the cars been reversed.

You forgot his first win in 2008 Monza was in a torro rosso.

Monza 2008 was hardly a straight fight against the top teams was it?

[HampusA]

Sorry for bringing this back to the circuit and technical matters; but since the de la Roggia and Rettifilio have been retrofitted with negative Vallelunga kerns (those massive orange mounds like in the last Canada chicane) how important is kerb riding? They used to have all 4 wheels (with the outside wheels *just* on the edge of the kerb) on the kerbs in pre-09 Monza; so I don't think kerb riding will be as important as it was then; but how important is it? I notice the kerbs are actually still quite high; they're quite "ramped" towards the inside of the corner.

I think they still offer a certain advantage in lap times, but i do believe the FIA is discouraging this for safety and for simply to avoid drivers and teams not getting carried away with doing it all the time. Anyways engineers say its really bad for the transmission. I recall in the 90's not only in Monza but also the old fast Hockenheim, Monaco and the Vedool chicane in Nurburgring... cars riding the kerbs to gain extra fractions. Mclaren and Williams(pre94)or rather Newey cars we're notable on riding the curbs without losing out in stability. I remember slow motion replays Brundle comparing Michael's Ferrari and Mika's car, the Ferrari shaking to bits while the Mclaren was like a Rolls Royce running over some juice box.


-- sorry old vhs shots

Check out Monza 08 in the rain and look at Hamilton. He did not just put the side of the car on the curbs he actually jumped the whole curb with all his car outside the racing surface.

I still cant believe the car did not get upset.. especially in the rain.

[HampusA]

Monza 2008 was hardly a straight fight against the top teams was it?

Kubica, Raikkonen and Hamilton all failed to make a Q3 time.
Universe lined up perfectly for Vettel to snatch his win. Similar to last years championship.

[raymondu999]

The McLaren has historically been a mechanically fantastic car. Great traction, braking, slow speed turn in, kerb riding, etc. As we're seeing this year too