McLaren's engine for 2014 and beyond?

[Richied76]

This is F1. Audi couldn't score a podium in their first year, much less a win or championship. Le Mans does NOT give the needed aero and setup refinement skills on an F1 level at all. The entire audi Le Mans program is nothing compared to a top F1 team.

Sure, everyone in Le Mans just do whatever they want, nothing professional with it at all, making an engine work 24h after each other is nothing compared to the 7h an f1 engine needs to do...

It is rubbish what you say and an stereotype that is created because there are a lot of customer teams in that sport. Just because that is the case doesnt mean that it is less professional. Audi LMP's are just as refined and profesional as formula 1, and I am sure Audi can come up with a really good engine scoring their first win in their first season already

7hrs with no rebuilds in-between, double the rpm (comparing petrol engines) and packaging constraints not much more than a couple of medium suitcases. Honda & Toyota, two of the best engine manufactures by far couldn't manage it. Unless they (Audi) have found away round such tight technical specs for f1 engines I struggle to see what specific knowledge they would have over the existing F1 engine builders. But as we already know.... There not interested anymore

[Shrieker]

Honda have... 'comprehensive' experience in turbo engines, don't they ? McLaren-Honda coming back, now that would be something.

[mx_tifoso]

Surely with their car production in full force by then they should have their own F1 engines as well? Seeing how manufacturers want credibility what says more than "we make our own race engines"?

Even though technically they continue to "outsource" the production car engines. =/

[raymondu999]

Isn't the McLaren MP4-12c run on a homegrown engine?

[Traction]

Isn't the McLaren MP4-12c run on a homegrown engine?

M838T 3.8 litre twin-turbo V8 engine...designed, developed by Mclaren in conjunction with Ricardo.

[WhiteBlue]

I do agree that it looks a bit strange that nothing comes out of the Paragon re engines in 2014.

McLaren broke up the relationship with Merc due to the disagreement over the MP4-12C. Both companies had different strategies in sports cars and McLaren decided to become an automotive player on their own and exploit their F1 reputation to push their own products. They are not using Merc engines for the MP4-12C but something they have commissioned for manufacturing but designed themselves.

The logic would be obvious that McLaren also would go for their own F1 engine project because the F1 honors would not go entirely to the McLaren cars but partly to Merc. There are two rather big points which make this reasoning flawed.

First the F1 politics have established a very firm grip of the chassis constructors over the automotive manufacturers. Engines have very little relevance on winning championships and certainly a lot less than they used to have before 2009. FOTA runs a very clear policy on that as we can see when we listen to Ferrari's constant complaints.

Second an engine projects absorbs tons of cash with a very long amortization time which is a drain on any constructors corporate finance. You may invest five years befor you even get a chance to see a return on your investment. In the case of McLaren there is also another cash drain in the automotive project that sucks cash like mad at the moment and will need cash for many foreseeable years.

So considering all those factors the seamingly obvious case for an own F1 engine project becomes very dubious in my view. I have long thought that McLaren will do it just for their pride and brand image, but I think that Ron's ambitions are now firmly about making the automotive venture a great success. He will not keep his eyes off that ball for a number of years and so I doubt that McLaren will make an F1 engine move for 2014. Of course this will be subject to suitable engines becomming available. If there is a critical situation coming up, the policy may be reviewed.

[tok-tokkie]

I would not be surprised if there is some Chinese involvement. India & Malaysia already have a presence in F1 (& Korea? Japan of course). I am not suggesting an engine made in China & I can't suggest a Chinese automotive company looking for an F1 profile to assist the marketing of their product. It is just that there is a lot of money there & some extremely significant manufacturers & that makes me expect some action from that quarter sooner or later. China is also a very significant market so there is an incentive to have a high profile Chinese connection for McLaren I would suggest.

[Richard]

Mercedes are obliged to supply McLaren up to and including the 2015 season. http://www.f1technical.net/news/13785

Lets see if there is a track version of the MP-12C fitted with a 1.6 litre 6 cylinder turbo by time we get to 2016. It'll not be a direct copy of an F1 engine, but it'll signal intent to develop engine capability.

[Pierce89]

This is F1. Audi couldn't score a podium in their first year, much less a win or championship. Le Mans does NOT give the needed aero and setup refinement skills on an F1 level at all. The entire audi Le Mans program is nothing compared to a top F1 team.

Sure, everyone in Le Mans just do whatever they want, nothing professional with it at all, making an engine work 24h after each other is nothing compared to the 7h an f1 engine needs to do...

It is rubbish what you say and an stereotype that is created because there are a lot of customer teams in that sport. Just because that is the case doesnt mean that it is less professional. Audi LMP's are just as refined and profesional as formula 1, and I am sure Audi can come up with a really good engine scoring their first win in their first season already

7hrs with no rebuilds in-between, double the rpm (comparing petrol engines) and packaging constraints not much more than a couple of medium suitcases. Honda & Toyota, two of the best engine manufactures by far couldn't manage it. Unless they (Audi) have found away round such tight technical specs for f1 engines I struggle to see what specific knowledge they would have over the existing F1 engine builders. But as we already know.... There not interested anymore

If were talking engines only, Audi could come in competitive. I thought we were talking chassis also,in which case Audi would have been quite uncompetitive in their first year.

[xpensive]

Mercedes are obliged to supply McLaren up to and including the 2015 season. http://www.f1technical.net/news/13785

Lets see if there is a track version of the MP-12C fitted with a 1.6 litre 6 cylinder turbo by time we get to 2016. It'll not be a direct copy of an F1 engine, but it'll signal intent to develop engine capability.

In F1 everything is always negotiable, xcept for MrE's fiscal needs that is.

Come to think of it, MP4-12C's 3.5 liter turbo V8 split down the middle, would have made a 1.75 liter turbo I4?

Naah, I think McLaren will team up with PURE in 2014, making it a McLaren-Peugeot effort, fighting it out with the Williams-Renaults, just like in the good old days, only this time the Finn will be driving for the Grove team!

[raymondu999]

I'm missing something here. How is PURE linked with Peugeot?

[Dragonfly]

See the P.U.R.E. thread next door.

[munudeges]

Mercedes are obliged to supply McLaren up to and including the 2015 season. http://www.f1technical.net/news/13785

While I fully expect McLaren to see out the V8 era with Mercedes engines I would not expect them to enter into a long term deal for V6s with Mercedes that is almost certainly not going to be extended beyond 2015. They'll have something else lined up for 2014 and onwards and it's not immediately obvious who that is right now........

[munudeges]

I'm missing something here. How is PURE linked with Peugeot?

A bit of speculation really, but along with the French acronym it seems as if a few of Jean Todt's French Peugeot connections are surfacing there, especially Gilles Simon.

[WhiteBlue]

Mercedes are obliged to supply McLaren up to and including the 2015 season. http://www.f1technical.net/news/13785

That was the story according to McLaren. Merc told a different story at the time.