F1 2011 and why i think they've missed the point.

[ell66]

I cant help but be frustrated with this year, in my eyes a big part of this is due to the rule changes.
Why feel the need to drastically change things? for the past 4 years 07-10 we've had great seasons that have gone to the absolute wire. So lets look at the changes.

DRS: Not a fan, completely artificial, makes pretty poor over takers look decent and actually makes racing more boring in my opinion due to the fact there cant be suprises anymore, look at spa, vettel just drove straight past rosberg, in my eyes it would of made for a much better race had drs not been involved, would rosberg had won? no but he'd been able to put up a fight and hold his own. Ovetaking has become boring, it shouldn't be happening 70 times a race. Ok with out it you'll have races where there'll be very few overtakes, but football has plenty of 0-0's and they dont have fans switching off or governing bodies drastically changing the rules it just makes the great races seem that much better.
I think the DRS is usefull only on a handfull of tracks, those being valencia, singapore, hungary and abu dabi, there just off the top of my head.

tyres: why bring these tyres out? to make more stops? thats what refueling did which i never understood why they took away, it made the strategy so much more interesting.

Im sure some of you will disagree but i thought id put this out there.

[wesley123]

I completely agree with you. DRS makes overtaking that easy that you will just drive past someone, if the overtake isnt succeeded you or missed the turn or you are really bad. DRS ruined the whole racing aspect in which I am quite sure drivers do not take risks but jsut wait for the DRS zone to just drive past without any effort. Great idea FIA, I always thopught drivers had to take chances and fight for their positions, now they just hold in and wait for DRS. DRS also ruined Monza for me, it is always a interesting race to see with what teams come up to challenge the straights, wow that was fully gone, one could even be competitive with the monaco wings on their cars, DRS here not only ruined the race but also ruined the technical aspect.

And also the tires, wow what an interresting racing these make, with a track full of marbles, 4 stops per race and no extra overtakes at all, dont see the point.

I always thought the goal of all this was to increase overtaking, in which it does not. The tires make the whole racing much more down to tactics, drivers dont even go full out any more in qualifying to spare tires, taking already one aspect away. In the race drivers cant even overtake due to the huge, and with huge I mean tons of marbles off the racing line. How the hell you gonna overtake on that? and DRS is even worse, drivers holdig in just to drive past in the DRS zone, it is ridiculous. The only useful bit is KERS, which actually adds new technology and drivers can use it to pass. Although this is, like always, badly executed. But I doubt my vote counts, I am almost falling asleep when watching it this year and I wont even watch it anymore next year due to the Sky deal although I doubt it if I watched it if BBC still broadcasted all of the races.

To me formula 1 is ruined since 2009. The new rules were to improve overtaking, that never happened and now the FIA shove anything up our throats with the goal to aid overtaking, which never succeed. 2007 nd 2008 were the most exiting seasons I had seen in my life, but then they had to change the rules ruining the technical aspect and adding nothing at all to racing. It is kinda awkward how an person like me who forgets everything can still remember races from 2007/2008, the wheelbaning of Kubica vs Massa, Hamilton dominating in Silverstone and Monaco, Kubica's huge crash, Hamilton losing the title in Brazil and Massa being WDC for 15 seconds, while these years are 'much more exiting' and more recent. Kinda shows how everything is contradicting each other.

[feni_remmen]

I generally disagree with you and totally disagree with any suggestion that refuelling adds to the strategy in F1. I would have liked to see Grand Prix with these tyres without DRS, but at the same time something to assist the following car is/was needed to counteract the dirty air/wake disadvantage. I am not sure DRS is it, but at some tracks it has been useful. It is important that DRS shouldn't help a slower car overtake, but I don't think that has happened this year.

As for tyres, F1 has needed this sort of solution for years. Particularly in the context of super reliable cars and controlled gearshifts. The thing that no refuelling and soft tyres produce is strategic developments that need to be managed in the moment.

It's not relevant, but I think if we had no DRS + Bridgestone tyres + refuelling, Seb would already be champion.

The reality would still be same; fastest car with competent drivers will win.

Also, I am fairly sure your vote doesn't count. I've been watching since the mid eighties and it seems that unless you have money invested in F1, you don't get to vote!

Also, if you want to watch interesting seasons, go and watch 1983/1986/1990/1997. 2007 and 2008 are interesting, but those 2 seasons would have been even better with no refuelling and more appropriate tyres!

I hate to get philosophical, but surely this discussion ends up being less about what F1 should be and more about where we all came from!

[mike]

i think drs needs to be balanced on tracks, point systems needs to improve, and the tires, its bullshit when everyone is doing the same thing, hard tires needs to be competitive to soft 1s to make racing interesting.
e.g softs that is 0.5s per lap faster lasts 20 laps, hard that last 40 laps
personally, I want no tire stops and no fuel stops, thats real strategy on driving not on math.
and the marbles....terrible!

[Lycoming]

refuelling was pretty dangerous, a lot of accidents related to it. spraying fuel down a pit lane loaded with hot tyres, brakes, radiators etc. is a recipe for disaster. Im in full support of the refuelling ban.

DRS was meant to give drivers following another car closely an extra edge to make up for what they lose by running in dirty air. It should be getting them close on the straights so they can fight it out in the braking zone. It should only enable them to pass on the straights if one driver got a much better run than the other, or the cars are significantly different in pace (ie. Red Bull on HRT). This was more or less what happened in Shanghai this year. It hasn't really been the case in most of the other races this year. It was too long, and drivers were just coasting past with no chance to defend. My opinion is that they've totally ballsed up the activation points. at most circuits, instead of halfway down the straight, the activation point is at the very beginning, or on the exit of the preceding corner. It was far, far too long in canada, turkey, and many others.

I like DRS in concept because it gives drivers the chance to come back through the field without being held up by traffic as much, as button did in Canada and Webbber did in China. I think DRS could work a lot better if they made later activation points on a lot of the circuits. but to go back to my original point about getting them to fight it out under braking, maybe they should make a Drag addition system instead.

[wesley123]

It is important that DRS shouldn't help a slower car overtake, but I don't think that has happened this year.

And here it does not, the only reason the midfield is this close is DRS, it is switching positions every lap due to DRS, an driver overtakes one with DRS, next lap he gets overtaken back, and it goes on like that.

The reality would still be same; fastest car with competent drivers will win.

And it should be that way, F1 is now more and more trying to let an HRT for example be able to win the race by BS like this

Also, if you want to watch interesting seasons, go and watch 1983/1986/1990/1997. 2007 and 2008 are interesting, but those 2 seasons would have been even better with no refuelling and more appropriate tyres!

Started wathcing since 2000, never seen an 80ies race but I can remember more moments from those races than I can from previous years. And if that is the case then there is something really really wrong.

I hate to get philosophical, but surely this discussion ends up being less about what F1 should be and more about where we all came from!

True, but if we look at this way, we all want the F1's to be like it was back in the days.

Formula 1 became too commercial, it isnt an dangerous sport anymore, you are more likely to get hurt in an Barca vs. Real match then hitting the concrete wall at 300kph, and imo that is one of the things that shouldnt be the case, yet in the current enviroment where everything has to look safe Ecclestone nor the teams can show off formula 1.

e.g softs that is 0.5s per lap faster lasts 20 laps, hard that last 40 laps

Agreed on this, tactics is pretty much the same for everyone, and with these new tires focussed on tactics that shouldnt be the case. There should be different tactics that could lead to a good finishing position.

personally, I want no tire stops and no fuel stops, thats real strategy on driving not on math.
and the marbles....terrible!

Indeed, would love to see how Perez for example finishes the race without doing a pit stop.

refuelling was pretty dangerous, a lot of accidents related to it. spraying fuel down a pit lane loaded with hot tyres, brakes, radiators etc. is a recipe for disaster. Im in full support of the refuelling ban.

Crossing the roads, riding your bike and other regular things are much more dangerous then refuelling.

I like DRS in concept because it gives drivers the chance to come back through the field without being held up by traffic as much, as button did in Canada and Webbber did in China. I think DRS could work a lot better if they made later activation points on a lot of the circuits. but to go back to my original point about getting them to fight it out under braking, maybe they should make a Drag addition system instead.

DRS more allows a guy like Webber to fail his starts then that it allows him to come back. It should be penalized, now it is more like; aww you ruined your start, here you have your rear wing opening to chase through the field. while that should be; Haha, you ruined your start, now try to get back to the front on your own. DRS ruins the whole challenge of racing. Now it is just driving laps, waiting for the DRS zone and drive past, in that view you are doing more racing on the roads in your hometown then in formula 1.

[N12ck]

I agree , DRS should be allowed, but on certain tracks, I think the racing has became less interesting, as

hypothetical circumstance:

With DRS:

Vettel could be held up by a driver who has overtaken him off the start or something like that, he waits 3 laps DRS breezes past the other driver, and he walks away with the win.

Without DRS:

Vettel could be held up by a driver who has overtaken him off the start or something like that, he is struggling to overtake him so he makes some risky overtakes which aren't managed to be done in a few laps, and has a battle for a bit of the race, and may still win or may not depending if the overtake worked properly, or if another driver caught him as he couldn't get past


Which do you prefer the sound of?

[wesley123]

I prefer the second. Battles are pretty much completely gone, the whole racing aspect is gone thanks to DRS.

[ESPImperium]

There are 4 areas for me that need work;

1] SC Rule - Go back to 2009 rule and have the pack in race order with no interfearance from back markers.

2] DRS/REV Limits - None of theese activation point things, allow it to attack or defend but make it 50 pushes per race of unlimiteda time. Also at the same time give the drivers 50 pushes of "Revs to 19k" as well, leader wouldnt get this function.

3] Tires - Rules need to be sorted out here somehow.

4} Q3 - Deduct 5 mins from the time and make it a "shootout" style, meaning drivers get one hot lap in that 5 min window. Also drivers that dont go out get a 5 place grid drop if they dont go out, but they can go out for a out and in lap if they please, but then they start on their Q2 fastest lap tires.

[timbo]

IMO it's funny that in the thread that starts with "why there are so many changes of the rules" there are so many suggestions to change the rules.
Also, face it, the season is boring not because of the rules, but because there's no serious contention for the title.
IMO DRS is successful. Imagine this season but with no overtaking -- yeah maybe we would have a race or two where Vettel would have to make his way up thru the field, but overall we'd see "trains" once again which would affect the whole grid. Which Singapore GP you prefer -- 2011 or 2010?

[gridwalker]

Additionally, I find it funny that the tyres were slated for making overtaking more strategic, but refuelling is encouraged for exactly the same reason! Sometimes I wonder if irony is just lost around here ...

[dave34m]

I like the DRS but it needs a bit of fine tuning. There have been tracks where it is just too big of an advantage so they need to look at maybe the size of the wing and/or the placement of the DRS zone, but all in all it has been a good step forward. Nothing more boring in F1 where a faster driver is stuck behind a slower car for lap after lap because it is just imopossibe to pass.
A bit of fine tuning is needed "for sure"

edited for sure one time to add "for sure"

[Lycoming]

Formula 1 became too commercial, it isnt an dangerous sport anymore, you are more likely to get hurt in an Barca vs. Real match then hitting the concrete wall at 300kph, and imo that is one of the things that shouldnt be the case, yet in the current enviroment where everything has to look safe Ecclestone nor the teams can show off formula 1.

The romance of the sport when it was a lot more dangerous was a huge part of the appeal and its a bit of a shame to lose that... but you can't seriously be saying that you WANT to see drivers hurt? And what about perez? out for 2 races, even with the fact that he hit that tecpro barrier.

Crossing the roads, riding your bike and other regular things are much more dangerous then refuelling.

not when its on such a knife edge like it is in f1. I don't know about you but the following dont happen when I cross the street:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzg_9UXo ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izlUXWDv ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCLZrV9A ... re=related

DRS more allows a guy like Webber to fail his starts then that it allows him to come back. It should be penalized, now it is more like; aww you ruined your start, here you have your rear wing opening to chase through the field. while that should be; Haha, you ruined your start, now try to get back to the front on your own. DRS ruins the whole challenge of racing. Now it is just driving laps, waiting for the DRS zone and drive past, in that view you are doing more racing on the roads in your hometown then in formula 1.

you have a point, though truthfully he came back strong at the end mostly because he had fresh options in shanghai. But it was still a good drive from him. I should rephrase to say DRS means you don't get much slower cars holding up front runners a la andrea de cesaris.

The other thing is in principle, drivers following close to another car lose pace by running in dirty air. they should not have that pace disadvantage. Track position should still be an advantage, and it still would be if the people behind you did not lose pace by following. DRS lets you counter the loss of downforce better than tho 09 rule changes. Thus I am for DRS. I am not for most of the activation points; letting drivers cruise past is just stupid.

additionally they shouldnt have it at all tracks. It did nothing to improve valencia and disturbed what was already a great formula in spa.

I prefer the second. Battles are pretty much completely gone, the whole racing aspect is gone thanks to DRS.

I don't know why you say that, unless you'd like to see another titanic clash like prost v senna. Theres no title battle but frankly thats for different reasons. I think we've seen plenty of wheel to wheel action this year, not all of it due to DRS.

2] DRS/REV Limits - None of theese activation point things, allow it to attack or defend but make it 50 pushes per race of unlimiteda time. Also at the same time give the drivers 50 pushes of "Revs to 19k" as well, leader wouldnt get this function.

from a reliability standpoint Im not sure that works, though I would like to see engine failures again. This year all the engine suppliers have ran a pretty tight ship.

[Gerhard Berger]

My opinions:

Tyres - well i think it is more interesting than last year, but i would like to see more varied strategies, like we did in China. However teams seem to just copy eachother more often than not. Also, i don't like the rule that you have to use both types of tyre. I actually quite liked the old rule that you have to choose what compound you want to use before the weekend starts.

KERS - it aids overtaking and is the type of new technology that should be seen in F1. However, it's use should not be limited. Teams who develop a better KERS should reap the rewards.

DRS - agree with the OP. At some races (e.g. Spa, Montreal, Istanbul) it left the drivers as sitting ducks and passes were being completed well before the braking zone. It's only needed at certain tracks.

Not much the rules can do about one driver running away with the championship though. We need Mclaren and Ferrari to build better cars in order to get a close championship.

[FrukostScones]

Haha, whoever claims that there were no overtakes due to the tyres has not seen every race. I think the tyres are perfect. Without the DRS it would be all fine. These tyres and DRS together make it a bit boring. But they wanted more overtakes and they achieved their goal, a bit of overkill to me, but maybe they will ban DRS in the future. Fuelstops were intersting but those "strategies" killed many races in my opinion, now it is all ot or nothing.
Remember those boring races from the 2000, now do you want that back, where only one or two pilots were fighting for the victory.
Now its more like 125ccm Motobike racing with fights until the end (ok Red Bull is a bit strong for that), but remeber HAM against Massa in Silverstone.

DRS is a questionable device and should be banned.

But these tires definitely did their job, and that very well.