Vettel just shy of Grand Slam, Hamilton beats penalty record

[kalinka]

Guys can we get back to the point of the thread, which is the fun facts/stats?

It's really strange to me that for those things you have to dig deep on internet. I wonder why nobody complained about that yet. Though we don't have any offical place where we can complain didn't we? All those statistics , fun facts, trivia and other things should appear automatically during pre-race interviews, during the race, and after the race too. There is plenty of time and place for those things, yet we didn't get it. Just look at NFL or any american sport broadcast. There's plenty of interesting things you can dig out with a decent database. Yet all we're getting is some stupid championship standings prediction half way into the race. I'm really annoyed of that. Computers were used in F1 long before any sport, and now here we are. Sure you can find it on internet, but it's not so interesting like getting it live.
As for the topic > I always preferred drivers who fought for the chamhionship, even when they never won it. Like Mansell, Hill, Hakkinen...long list. Mansell won it at the end by big margin, but countless times he was runner-up and fighting for victories, being hopelessly unfortunate...etc, yet I liked his style, and never liked professor-like driving like Prost. Sorry for long post.

[Traction]

http://f1stats.blog.com/

looks familiar..

[raymondu999]

I think that's a very interesting point you bring up smikle. There aren't any prizes for finishing 2nd (in the WDC). Nobody remembers who comes 2nd. But people do remember WDCs; and wins. I think when the championship isn't really on the cards anymore (as it is now) then the Hamilton approach doesn't have much to lose; and hypothetically, winning 4 more races; finishing 4th in the championship, is a lot better than probably coming 2nd in all the last races and coming 2nd in the title chase. Again, hypothetically speaking, of course.

[PlatinumZealot]

F1Fanatic.co.uk also always has some fun facts, and @virtualstatman on twitter also always puts up fun facts/stats

Kieth was a balanced writer, but as of late he getting more and more fan-boyish in his articles. Too much praise for redBull and Vettel and too much Hamilton whoring to get hits. (just check the Mclaren Singapore tilte). I still like his site for the statistics and for the openness. You can talk to him anytime.

[PlatinumZealot]

I have the list here now; 7 records he can still go for (8 if you count youngest Grand Slam; 9 if you don't consider youngest double champion in the pocket yet). Shall I post them here, or would it be interesting as a separate topic so people can easily keep track? If a separate topic, I can also include other possible stats/records.

where is the thread? I am interested.

[mnmracer]

I have the list here now; 7 records he can still go for (8 if you count youngest Grand Slam; 9 if you don't consider youngest double champion in the pocket yet). Shall I post them here, or would it be interesting as a separate topic so people can easily keep track? If a separate topic, I can also include other possible stats/records.

where is the thread? I am interested.

Hunt for the records in the remaining races

[jamsbong]

http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport ... 60126.html

Horner praising Vettel again. I do agree with him that Vettel has changed/improved a lot since he joined F1. The talent he has to go fast will always be with him. However, he has gain a lot of other skills to allow him to be consistent and ultimately become so dominant. Of course, we can say he has the fastest car etcs, but I'm very certain that not all driver given the same car will yield so much points (eg. Webber).

Hamilton on the other hand, has got great talent but it is clear that he is too arrogant to really skill up and become consistent. Instead, he is skilful in upsetting stewards, other drivers and adding a lot of Lewis-hating audience. When Lewis becomes a WISE MAN one day in the far far future, I'm sure he has a good chance of defeating top contenders even on an inferior car.

[Pierce89]

[...] Everyone knows Hamilton is way faster than Button. It's just that some Hamilton fans on this thread(I'm lookin' at you Ringo) need to take an example from Hamilton's above quoted modesty. He's had a bad season in relation to his potential, so even though he truly is my second favorite driver I belive he deserves a little criticism. There really is no excuse for letting Button beat him when in all realtiy he probably has 5 tenths a lap worth of talent over Button. I for one hope to see the real, slightly more composed, and much happier and fun tun watch Hamilton back. Hamilton vs Alonso is where the all the fun is hiding. If we could get Ferrari and Macca up to Red Bull level, then Vettel would be quickly overshadowed.

[Richard]

Button is getting good results, but he still doesn't have that #1 driver capability to fight for wins like a Hamilton or Alonso.

Button aint winning a thing. He's Mr. Almost but never. He'll get the podiums if all goes well. But Lewis will get the wins if all goes well.

errr... they both have the same number of wins. Button has 8 podiums (57%) while Hamilton has 4 (29%). That would appear to make Button more "winning".

Alonso has 1 win and 7 podiums. That's a terrible conversion rate. Does that make him more an "almost" man than the others, because he has less wins?

That's a technical forum for you, we like numbers... and this is meant to be a stats thread.

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ps... To offer an olive branch, I think you are saying Hamilton is more ballsy, has more passion. We'd all agree with that. In his first 2 season that brought rewards, it was a winning approach, but this season it has been counter productive.

[PlatinumZealot]

Well not when he was in Germany.

[Richard]

Isn't the notion of the most complete driver about someone who blends on track aggression tactical nous and strategy?

[timbo]

Interesting thing, Senna was always regarded as aggressive, and sometimes overly aggressive, but in his book he always describes a very rational approach to overtaking. For example, in the situation like Lewis faced in Italy, Senna recommended to fall back, relax, calm down, and then launch a decisive attack to catch opponent off-guard.

[izybluffen]

Hi, I'm a first time poster here and I'm a Webber and A.Senna fan.

Just a point of interest with the Grand Chelem/Slam:
The 5 top Grand Slam drivers are:

1- Jim Clark, 32% of wins by Grand Slam
2- Jackie Stewart, 15%
3- Ayrton Senna, 10%
4- Juan-Manuel Fangio, 8%
5- Stirling Moss, 6%

I think Schumacher is on 5% for some comparison.
Basically Clark is by far the most dominating driver in F1 history.
That's gonna be an impossible stat for Vettel to beat let alone get into the top 5.

[raymondu999]

I think getting a single Grand Slam is already an absolutely impressive feat; whether or not you get more than one, and how many percent of wins are GCs, don't bother me. If I was a driver I'd be absolutely satisfied with having done a GC.

Welcome to the forums

[CHT]

I think that's a very interesting point you bring up smikle. There aren't any prizes for finishing 2nd (in the WDC). Nobody remembers who comes 2nd. But people do remember WDCs; and wins. I think when the championship isn't really on the cards anymore (as it is now) then the Hamilton approach doesn't have much to lose; and hypothetically, winning 4 more races; finishing 4th in the championship, is a lot better than probably coming 2nd in all the last races and coming 2nd in the title chase. Again, hypothetically speaking, of course.

I think the consolation prize for others to win the remaining race is to prevent Vettel from breaking new race records. Sure LH will be keen to do that.