Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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Are we?

Yes
55
39%
No
85
61%
 
Total votes: 140

Raptor22
Raptor22
26
Joined: 07 Apr 2009, 22:48

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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Mandrake wrote:
RB7ate9 wrote:So no, we are not entering the "Vettel Era" because we haven't seen him be the determining factor in a team's overall success. Put him in a Lotus and see if he can push the team from the back to the midfield and beyond, consistently. We didn't see the "Alonso Era" because he kept jumping from team to team, not improving much from one to the other, and Ferrari is currently third in the constructors championship. Two WDCs does not make "an era".
Unfortunately it doesn't work anymore today with putting a top driver into a lousy car and make it faster.

MSC went to Ferrari and brought Ferrari back to the top. This was achieved through endless testing and massive amounts of money spent.

Today money is limited, especially for smaller teams, testing is banned, so innovation and development is slowed down. It can be clearly seen with MGP, Michael would not have lost his ability to build a team, to bring it back to the top end of the grid, but due to the outer circumstances he cannot succeed!

Put MSC, Ham, Vettel, Button, Alonso or whoever you want into a Lotus today and I'm sure they will not cut the mustard!

Weighing in a little late but here goes.
Schumacher was quick straight away. In a Mercedes Sports car they regularly asked him to slow down to preserve teh car.
IN teh Jordan he punted it high er up the grid that it regular drivers could. He was better able to gauge the cars strenghts and weaknesses than Gachot or that little Italian whose name escapes me. He regulalry beat all his teammates, from Piquet to Brundle to Herbert. The latter has openly admitted that the team gravitated toward Schumacher simply because he was good with the car and in it.
Heading over toFerrari, when Schumacher sampled the 412-T2 for the first time he took it around Fiorano faster than Alesi or Berger had ever taken it and that was in Imola spec!He said immediately that although the engine was peaky the chassis responded well to changes and could be adapted to cope with the V12. Schmacher lifted Ferrari's pace from the time the wheels turned.

He was in an ecelent car in 2002 and 2004 but look at 2003... the McLaren with Michelins was the thing to have and SChumacher still sniffed the championship out of nothing. McLaren and Raikkonen snatcheddefeat from the jawsof victory.


FF to Vettel. the kid and he is just about out of Kidniss now, was uber fast fromt he forst ime he got into a BMW F1 car. Hefoced Kubica to raise his game. His feedback directly helped BMW make the car faster.
His first season in a STR he showed he would be a problm for the front of the grid, in a year when the cars were producing more downforce than in even the groundeffect era. To ahieve that in mid pack mid funded car is astounding. Bourdais is not bad, he is excellent but he was overshadowed by Vettel. Thats life.
Derek Warick was fast but Ayrton Senna vetoed him fromjoining Lotus and that was the end of Warwock's career. We don;t talk about Warwick do we...

Lastly why do the utterly anal have to rip the pasion out of everything? Speakng of drver Era's is merely a metapor for describing periods in F1 histroy where a driver has left a mark on the business of F1. We speak of the Schumacher era but Hakkinen played a big part of it.

Is too early to speak of a Vettel era because he is so young. But heck I could not think of a better person todominate F1 for the next 10 years.

BTW, Schumacher is the only driver in history to have copeted through as many major rules changes and engine formula changes since Fangio. He is also the only driver from 1992 to 2004 to win a DWC n a car not designed by Adrian Newey.

Newey's Red Bull era is the first time he has deisgned a winning car without having he best engine on the grid.
HAs the RB7 been utterly dominatnt? Only n the hands of Vettel.

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raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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Raptor, agreed. But Mandrake's point wasn't quite about putting a fast guy in a slow car. It was about a fast/good driver making a slow car fast and building a team. Kind of what Glock/Trulli/Kovalainen are supposed to be doing
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Gerhard Berger
Gerhard Berger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2010, 11:17

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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Mandrake wrote:
RB7ate9 wrote:So no, we are not entering the "Vettel Era" because we haven't seen him be the determining factor in a team's overall success. Put him in a Lotus and see if he can push the team from the back to the midfield and beyond, consistently. We didn't see the "Alonso Era" because he kept jumping from team to team, not improving much from one to the other, and Ferrari is currently third in the constructors championship. Two WDCs does not make "an era".
Unfortunately it doesn't work anymore today with putting a top driver into a lousy car and make it faster.

MSC went to Ferrari and brought Ferrari back to the top. This was achieved through endless testing and massive amounts of money spent.

Today money is limited, especially for smaller teams, testing is banned, so innovation and development is slowed down. It can be clearly seen with MGP, Michael would not have lost his ability to build a team, to bring it back to the top end of the grid, but due to the outer circumstances he cannot succeed!

Put MSC, Ham, Vettel, Button, Alonso or whoever you want into a Lotus today and I'm sure they will not cut the mustard!
I'd say the part in bold is a very simplistic and ignorant view of what happened at Ferrari. Ferrari always had a massive budget and the test track outside their factory yet didn't produce results before Schumacher came. There were significant changes in the way Ferrari was run and in some of the key technical members of team. This is what changed Ferrari and made them succesful.

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Lurk
2
Joined: 13 Feb 2010, 20:58

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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Raptor22 wrote: He was in an ecelent car in 2002 and 2004 but look at 2003... the McLaren with Michelins was the thing to have
MP4-17D scored 2 victories against 1 vs the last year Ferrari. Then we had 7 victories in 12 races for the F2003-GA vs 0. And McLaren was the thing to have!?

You must be kidding, right?

myurr
myurr
9
Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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Back on topic...

This was posted in another thread:
Raptor22 wrote:the fixed weight distribution rule is rubbish. It really takes a tuning element out of the drivers hands.
It made me wonder if the weight distribution was something else that played directly into Vettel's hands by being just right for his driving style. Next year, if I remember correctly, the weight distribution rule is either relaxed or removed as the teams now have data on the Pirelli tyres. It will be interesting to see if we see drivers able to play with weight distribution to improve the handling of the car for themselves (MW for example keeps eating his rear tyres, will he shift the weight forward?) and will this help even the field with Vettel?

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PlatinumZealot
559
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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MArk Webber's problem is mental.

Which one is harder? F1 or threading a needle?

I think F1 is harder.

And threading a needle with your mind somewhere else and your hands shivering is almost impossible if you ask me. :wink: So yeah, I don't bash Webber too much as soon as his mind is clear he will back. Same goes for Massa (who has shown much better pace this year) and Hamilton.
Last edited by PlatinumZealot on 04 Nov 2011, 16:03, edited 1 time in total.
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raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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Myurr- weighg distribution regs remain the same for 2012.
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Mandrake
Mandrake
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Joined: 31 May 2010, 01:31

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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Gerhard Berger wrote:I'd say the part in bold is a very simplistic and ignorant view of what happened at Ferrari. Ferrari always had a massive budget and the test track outside their factory yet didn't produce results before Schumacher came. There were significant changes in the way Ferrari was run and in some of the key technical members of team. This is what changed Ferrari and made them succesful.
Sorry, I might not have it expressed properly. MSC was able to use the massive amounts of money spent in endless testing days and could execute his development on the car.

I know that Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn came along with MSC, they surely contributed largely to the success.

Today he can only try to extract the maximum out of the car and give development infos, but there are only a few occasions where he can test new bits and the whole development cycle is slowed down by RRA anyways.

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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Say what you want ,but Vettel was the guy who won a GrandPrix in a Toro Rosso -Minardi....
And the two chaps driving the REDBULL which was essentially the same car did not win in Monza when this golden opportunity opened up.Bourdais did not win as well that day and he did not come in second either..
Anyone who thinks it´s just about how fast you can drive the car around a circuit does not have a clue about racing.
You can talk about selfmotivation and money and experience all day long but some guys have the ability to extract more out of themselves AND out of their team as all involved thought was possible.This is really a gift and it is coming up to the surface when it really counts.
A guy who would talk to another team to pressurise his current one is just not able to understand the mechanisms.Vettel does not even give the impression he would be interested to talk to anyone else ...so does Schumacher..commitment to the job ahead is everything...Button signing for three years with Mclaren ..clever guy.

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raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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Absolutely. +1 Marcush.

I remember reading or watching a blog/video blog at one point last year; that when Mark has a problem, his somewhat louder, more media-centric approach of reacting to it doesn't really endear him to the team, and actually, Seb just does his best to collect the team and bring them together from the tragedy, rallying the troops in a way; which actually has brought the team a lot closer to him, and him to them
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beelsebob
beelsebob
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Joined: 23 Mar 2011, 15:49
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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A don't really get how "he won at monza in a torro rosso" is being held up as evidence that we're seeing a vettel era. Hill all-but won at Hungary in an Arrows, did we see a Hill era though? I don't think anyone would dispute that Vettel is a good driver, nor that he's capable of winning in a sub-par car; but at the same time, I don't think there's any evidence yet that he's any better than Alonso, Hamilton or Button, or that none of them would do the same thing in the same equipment.

Gerhard Berger
Gerhard Berger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2010, 11:17

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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marcush. wrote:Say what you want ,but Vettel was the guy who won a GrandPrix in a Toro Rosso -Minardi....
And the two chaps driving the REDBULL which was essentially the same car did not win in Monza when this golden opportunity opened up.Bourdais did not win as well that day and he did not come in second either..
Anyone who thinks it´s just about how fast you can drive the car around a circuit does not have a clue about racing.
You can talk about selfmotivation and money and experience all day long but some guys have the ability to extract more out of themselves AND out of their team as all involved thought was possible.This is really a gift and it is coming up to the surface when it really counts.
A guy who would talk to another team to pressurise his current one is just not able to understand the mechanisms.Vettel does not even give the impression he would be interested to talk to anyone else ...so does Schumacher..commitment to the job ahead is everything...Button signing for three years with Mclaren ..clever guy.
Let us have some perspective please. He won in a Torro Rosso - not a Minardi. People don't say Button won his championship in a BAR, so why should you mention Minardi?

Red Bull had a different engine which caused many complications in their car. Whilst it's clear that the Torro Rosso was not the best car in the field, but by the end of the season it was quite a handy car, especially in the wet (as demonstrated by Bourdais qualifying fourth in that Monza race). It was a great maiden victory for Vettel, but it gets a bit annoying when people exagerate it out of proportion.

Gerhard Berger
Gerhard Berger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2010, 11:17

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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beelsebob wrote:A don't really get how "he won at monza in a torro rosso" is being held up as evidence that we're seeing a vettel era. Hill all-but won at Hungary in an Arrows, did we see a Hill era though? I don't think anyone would dispute that Vettel is a good driver, nor that he's capable of winning in a sub-par car; but at the same time, I don't think there's any evidence yet that he's any better than Alonso, Hamilton or Button, or that none of them would do the same thing in the same equipment.
My thoughts exactly =D>

myurr
myurr
9
Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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beelsebob wrote:A don't really get how "he won at monza in a torro rosso" is being held up as evidence that we're seeing a vettel era. Hill all-but won at Hungary in an Arrows, did we see a Hill era though? I don't think anyone would dispute that Vettel is a good driver, nor that he's capable of winning in a sub-par car; but at the same time, I don't think there's any evidence yet that he's any better than Alonso, Hamilton or Button, or that none of them would do the same thing in the same equipment.
+1

With the big guns out of the way in qualifying through their own mistakes that Torro Rosso was pretty much the car to be in. Let's not forget that 3 of the top 4 cars in qualifying were from that stable.

Bourdais did not win that day, but then again Vettel didn't have a problem stalling his car on the grid.

On race day, if I remember correctly, had rain fallen when predicted then Hamilton had the pace to win that race. In the end the rain didn't come so he needed to pit for tyres and fell back down the grid.

Vettel drove a good race that day, and didn't crack under pressure. But it's not the David vs Goliath battle that many make it out to be. He had a good car and got a good result.

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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Gerhard, Bourdais had a wet setup that race, and qualified a second off Vettel's pace
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