Nascar's Kyle Busch-Ron Hornaday collision

[Jersey Tom]

I believe Mike Helton is effectively the Charlie Whiting on race day I suppose and works control, and is also the president of NASCAR yes. There is no collection of stewards however. Ultimately rule enforcement and such usually get worked out between Helton, Pemberton (VP of Competition) and Darby (Series Director).

Why take so long? Alternatively, why rush into it? They decided what would happen for the rest of the Texas races very quickly. Beyond that.. I'm not sure there's a precedent for this sort of thing.

In any event, yes there is a "have at it" policy which basically lets racing incidents be racing incidents. In stock car racing given a 43 car field on tracks as short as 0.5 mi / 0.8 km and minimal downforce... there's going to be car-to-car contact - and it's acceptable. Unlike F1 where a slight touch between cars can rip off a wing and ruin a guy, denting a fender isn't a big deal. If you're battling for a position and nudge a guy out of the way, and then he nudges you back on another pass... that's fine.

Intentionally wrecking someone under a caution most certainly does not fall under that realm of leeway.

[Lurk]

Kyle Busch should be ban until at least Daytona 500 included for having done that.

I'm not familiar with all Nascar rules even if I follow it sometimes, so I have a question for you Jersey Tom: if I'm not mistaken, it is not the driver who scores points but the car, so could Hamlin run KB car in order to score point for him?

[olefud]

Much of NASCAR’s problem results from the fact that on the short tracks it’s near impossible to pass a slower car without contact. This has degraded into just hitting the lead car to bump it aside. And just certain drives are privileged to do so based mostly on force of personality. The inmates are running the asylum.

When F-1 had drivers palpably wrecking their competitors for strategic advantage, the adults cracked down and cleaned things up. NASCAR could use a dose of discipline.

But hey, don’t forget there are also fine gentlemen out there. Mark Martin comes to mind as an example of setting high standards.

[Mystery Steve]

... if I'm not mistaken, it is not the driver who scores points but the car, so could Hamlin run KB car in order to score point for him?

I haven't watched NASCAR for a few years, so if there has been a change in the rules, then someone please correct me. Assuming the rules haven't changed - if you're referring to the owner's points, then anyone can drive the car and the points will be attributed to the owner of the car. If you're referring to the driver's points, on the other hand, then the points are awarded to whoever starts the race in that car. It's common for an injured driver to drive the first stint of a race, and then let a replacement driver will take over at the first pit stop so that the main driver can at least gain some points at that race without further aggravating the injury too much.

As for Busch, at the very least I would ban him from any remaining races in any series that he is eligible to compete in this year. An even longer ban wouldn't seem unreasonable given that he has a bit of a history of this sort of behavior, though I've never seen it this severe.

[bhall]

Hornaday's impact with the wall was exactly like that which killed one of NASCAR's biggest ever stars, Dale Earnhardt. That Hornaday was so methodically and mercilessly forced into the wall by another driver is one of the most reprehensible acts I've ever seen, especially in light of the recent tragedies which have befallen the world of motorsports.

If I were NASCAR, I wouldn't allow Kyle Busch to participate in a NASCAR-sanctioned race ever again. If I were a sponsor, I wouldn't allow my product and his name to be mentioned in the same sentence. If I were a team owner, I wouldn't employ him as a janitor. And if his teeth were on fire, I wouldn't piss in his mouth to put out the flames.

I think there are only but a rare few transgressions in any given situation which warrant the most severe penalty possible, and this is one of them.

I honestly don't even think I'd object if the Tarrant County district attorney hauled Busch's ass to court to face charges of aggravated assault.


EDIT: My research staff is off this weekend.

[Mystery Steve]

Christ, Busch did this on the very track where Dan Wheldon was killed only weeks ago!

Actually, they were at Texas Motor Speedway, not Las Vegas. However, the location is irrelevant - to retaliate like that for an incident that wasn't even entirely Hornaday's fault is completely inexcusable. Even if Hornaday had taken him out of the race or championship contention (neither of which was the case), that was still way over the line even by NASCAR's "rubbin' is racin'" standards.

[Lurk]

... if I'm not mistaken, it is not the driver who scores points but the car, so could Hamlin run KB car in order to score point for him?

I haven't watched NASCAR for a few years, so if there has been a change in the rules, then someone please correct me. Assuming the rules haven't changed - if you're referring to the owner's points, then anyone can drive the car and the points will be attributed to the owner of the car. If you're referring to the driver's points, on the other hand, then the points are awarded to whoever starts the race in that car. It's common for an injured driver to drive the first stint of a race, and then let a replacement driver will take over at the first pit stop so that the main driver can at least gain some points at that race without further aggravating the injury too much.

Ok thanks for the explanation.

[strad]

In my opinion it's symbolic of the times.
Back in the day a driver like Busch would have had his ass kicked a long time ago. Other drivers would have "explained" the error of his ways to him, but these days he gets to run away to his hauler and never have to pay for his actions. You know...about like the rest of our spoiled brats generation, that have been told by their mommies that they are just the best and can do no wrong.

[Jersey Tom]

He was parked for the weekend - which is pretty substantial given the championship standings - fined 50k, and if he does anything else this year at Phoenix or Homestead he's suspended indefinitely.

Not the harshest of penalties (parking him the rest of the season), but not particularly light either. With how far back he is in points, he's effectively out of contention.

[strad]

Agree with you J.T....
I'm just fed up with just about all of them though.
To be honest, I'm not much happier with the current F1 climate though,and a lot of racing in general for that matter, where every little contact is investigated and penalized.
We seem to have lost the ability to distinguish between close hard racing and rough driving.
Kinda the other end of the spectrum from NASCARs, have at it boys.

[ergenomic]

The type of crazy driving that recklessly endangers the lives of drivers and spectators is unfortunately more common in the USA than most would imagine. There is a complete disregard for the consequences and the spectators really like to watch the action. There is only a matter of time until of the vehicles is not snared by the "catch fence" and we see an enormous loss of life.

There is a culture in the USA where drivers believe they are the adjudicator and are able to make the decision about the punishment handed out to each other.

Take for example these two connected examples from NASCAR in 2009 and 2010.

Frankly this type of action is appalling. Having to wait for death to knock at the door before taking action is the terrible mistake our culture makes all too frequently.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9FsYDEIZWk[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_4I12ww ... re=related[/youtube]