Are We Seeing The Best?

[strad]

Are we seeing the best drivers in the world, as Bernie and the F1 PR machine would have us believe?
Or just the best that have the money to buy a seat?
According to GP Week magazine; If you want to get a seat at lowly HRT it will cost you 3 Million Euros..Virgin will want 5 Million and further up to Toro Rosso will cost you a cool 10 Million euros.. 12 Mil to be Petrovs team mate...Ya wanna be Fernando and drive for Ferrari, then you have to get a Santander to offer up 40 Million Euros to get you in the door.
AND,,That is after many millions more in the junior ranks just to get the chance.
So I really have to ask. The best? Or the best rich kids?
What would the ranks look like if it was really the best and not those who are rich or well connected.
AND...Why should an Alonso have to buy their seat?

[Byronrhys]

This starts way before F1 my friend, it starts in the feeder series, GP2 is a massive field of healthily backed drivers, same for GP3 and FR 3.5. So Basically we still wouldn't have a good idea of what the field would look like, you;d have to base it off of carting which cost very little and has a lot of people with not much cash.

[ringo]

Carting cost very little.
In my country only the rich do karting. So yeah i agree with the whole idea of pay to play preventing us from seeing the best of the best.
Motorsport is generally for the well to do.

Poor people sports don't involve tools and machines. Football, track and field etc. is where you will see the best of the best.

[munudeges]

Are we seeing the best drivers in the world, as Bernie and the F1 PR machine would have us believe? Or just the best that have the money to buy a seat?

The latter, of course. It has always been like that, but it has got steadily worse over the years as funding even in junior karting has got out of control. Many kids there are spending upwards of quarter of a million a year and they have their own teams as opposed to just turning up with a kart as you used to do.

The young driver test with Turvey, Bird and alike made me laugh. All cut from the same cloth, all using the same language and all with virtually the same haircuts. That seems to be where we are headed.

[Earnard Beccelstone]

I don't think its Bernie et al promoting that F1 drivers are the "best in the world" - mostly some of the commentators and the fans. I've never seen/heard/read anything official to that extent anyway.

Personally, I think the set of skills displayed by rally drivers makes them more complete drivers - given the variation in surfaces and the comparative unpredictability of their "circuits".

F1 has always been about not just the best drivers, but the combination/confluence of driver skill and money/influential backing as well as timing, determination to enter the sport, good management and a little bit of luck. Only when most these things fall into place will a driver get his shot.

The classic example that springs to mind is M. Schumacher and his first appearance driving for Eddie Jordan ($150,000 for a single GP drive in 1991), but it stretches well back before then.

Unless you are rich to begin with or have close ties with very good sponsors, then its driving skill that attracts that sponsorship money.

Kicking around somewhere is Mark Webber's theoretical career outline from 1997 or 1998, outlining just what he needed to do and how much sponsorship money he needed to get an F1 drive. Webber has never won a single championship, but he's spent ten years in F1, thanks to an Aussie owning Minardi and sheer hard work.

[Mandrake]

Tbh with Michael Schumacher it was Willy Weber willing to invest in him, believing MSC could achieve a lot more in F1. MSC himself had his father working his ass off for him to get into racing in the beginning. Sebastian Vettel also comes from a normal family without any special privileges.

Motorsports always involves a ton of money, but if you are really good, you will get the attention of rich people willing to invest into you. See Hamilton as McLaren child or Vettel being supported by BMW.

[DRCorsa]

I suppose it's not just money what can buy a Ferrari seat for you.
I bet i will not be able to become a Ferrari or McLaren driver even if i bring 3 Santanders with me.

[N12ck]

I race in junior karting (junior tkm) (wont attempt to even get to f1) but it is soo expensive its ridiculous, on one race weekend I will spend approx £150-200 and I'm not even in the British championship, I'm just doing the club championship (county). The karts themselves + engine cost about £2000, and that's before you have bought tyres (another £150 a set) and wheels, and every other tool you will need.

To do the British championship I can see it costing easily £7000+ , if you want to be competitive I would say £10,000+ (dont quote me on these figures by the way )

So I would say the best drivers out there still havent been discovered and cant race due to cost, and the further up you move the more it costs, so I think F1 drivers arent 'the best' however they are the luckiest and had most money available to them, but still are probably some of the most talented out there.

To get the attention of the rich people, you need to have a lump of money to start off and race in the first spot. so I think something needs done

[PlatinumZealot]

Are we seeing the best drivers in the world, as Bernie and the F1 PR machine would have us believe?
Or just the best that have the money to buy a seat?
According to GP Week magazine; If you want to get a seat at lowly HRT it will cost you 3 Million Euros..Virgin will want 5 Million and further up to Toro Rosso will cost you a cool 10 Million euros.. 12 Mil to be Petrovs team mate...Ya wanna be Fernando and drive for Ferrari, then you have to get a Santander to offer up 40 Million Euros to get you in the door.
AND,,That is after many millions more in the junior ranks just to get the chance.
So I really have to ask. The best? Or the best rich kids?
What would the ranks look like if it was really the best and not those who are rich or well connected.
AND...Why should an Alonso have to buy their seat?

Ok. Are you sure about these amounts? I do not know what the exact amount of money is, but I have a quote from Helmut Mark with him saying that it cost him the same as a GP2 seat to get Daniel Ricciardo into the HRT. Does anyone know the cost of a GP2 seat?

[Giblet]

Are we seeing the best drivers in the world, as Bernie and the F1 PR machine would have us believe?
Or just the best that have the money to buy a seat?
According to GP Week magazine; If you want to get a seat at lowly HRT it will cost you 3 Million Euros..Virgin will want 5 Million and further up to Toro Rosso will cost you a cool 10 Million euros.. 12 Mil to be Petrovs team mate...Ya wanna be Fernando and drive for Ferrari, then you have to get a Santander to offer up 40 Million Euros to get you in the door.
AND,,That is after many millions more in the junior ranks just to get the chance.
So I really have to ask. The best? Or the best rich kids?
What would the ranks look like if it was really the best and not those who are rich or well connected.
AND...Why should an Alonso have to buy their seat?

Ok. Are you sure about these amounts? I do not know what the exact amount of money is, but I have a quote from Helmut Mark with him saying that it cost him the same as a GP2 seat to get Daniel Ricciardo into the HRT. Does anyone know the cost of a GP2 seat?

http://gp2insider.wordpress.com/2009/03 ... 2-budgets/

[ESPImperium]

Are we seeing the best drivers in the world, as Bernie and the F1 PR machine would have us believe?
Or just the best that have the money to buy a seat?
According to GP Week magazine; If you want to get a seat at lowly HRT it will cost you 3 Million Euros..Virgin will want 5 Million and further up to Toro Rosso will cost you a cool 10 Million euros.. 12 Mil to be Petrovs team mate...Ya wanna be Fernando and drive for Ferrari, then you have to get a Santander to offer up 40 Million Euros to get you in the door.
AND,,That is after many millions more in the junior ranks just to get the chance.
So I really have to ask. The best? Or the best rich kids?
What would the ranks look like if it was really the best and not those who are rich or well connected.
AND...Why should an Alonso have to buy their seat?

Ok. Are you sure about these amounts? I do not know what the exact amount of money is, but I have a quote from Helmut Mark with him saying that it cost him the same as a GP2 seat to get Daniel Ricciardo into the HRT. Does anyone know the cost of a GP2 seat?

http://gp2insider.wordpress.com/2009/03 ... 2-budgets/

I have to disaggree with some of those budgets as the budgets ive got for the lower formula are as follows:

GP2: €3m to €4.5m for a full season dependant on team and accent damage repair bill
GP3: €1m to €1.5m for a full season and accedent repair bill
Formula Renault 3.5: €950,000 for a full season and thats cost capped, 2012 will see this rise to €1.2m as all drivers will have to buy their first chassis for their team due to their new 2012 car coming into the series, 2013 will be lowered to €1.05m.
Brit/Euro F3: €850,000 average for a full season with a decent engine and chassis, an older engine model and chassis will be less
Formula 2: €550,000 for a full season cost capped
Auto GP: €650,000 to €725,000 dependant on accedent damage and engine and gearbox rebuilds.

For a race in F1 its anywhere between €600,000 to €1.1m team dependant till you get to the area of the grid Mercedes is in and above. Daniel Riccardo cost Red Bull €10m for 11 races last year, and Pastor Maldanados backers gave WIlliams €24.3m for a season. Sennas backers were giving Renault €1.1m a race for his 8 events last year, and Petrov gives the team €20m a season as well.

I doubt any seat in F1 is any less than €12m for a season for a race seat. From what im led to belive Jan Charuz has spent €200,000 from his backers for a FP1 seat just there at Brazil and another €300,000 for his young driver test with Hispania.

Fabio Leimer, Stefano Coletti and Kevin Ceccon were reported to have spent €500,000 for a day with STR and Sauber just to het their International A licence for appearing in F1 at any time in the next 2 or 3 years.

[PlatinumZealot]

Naw Esperium, those values just seem wrong. You just can't give a guy 24 million euros no matter what your'e buying. No Exec would ever sign anything remotely close to that. Where is the gain?

The 1 million to 1.3 million euros make more sense to me.

As IIRC. you have guys like D'ambrosio buying seats left right and center with nameless, never heard of sponsors that have no where close to that kind of money.

[ESPImperium]

The figure im led to belive Pic is paying Marussia next year is €18m. So i doubt my figures are too wide of the mark.

But it is all team dependant, and how much exposure the drivers sponsor or sponsors get.

[strad]

yes i am sure ...check last weeks GP Week mag...you know the official magazine.