Ferrari tyre secret?

[Duact]

I think Ferrari is not fast because of the gearbox, that is just a thing Ferrari want's one to believe. I know Ferrari's engine was weaker than BMW 2002 but still they passed Williams stronger BMW engine when they was reaching top speed. Then Ferrari must be using less downforce, less drag. But Ferrari was considerably faster thru a corner that anyone else! How can this be? There is only one thing that make sence to this; the tires! They make it faster thru the corner because they have better tires!

How else can you explain Ferraris pace 2002? The difference between minardi and mclaren was as big as mclaren and ferrari in 2002! So, those tyres must be specially threated. There is no other explanation! Tell me if you got one!!

[Steven]

Leaving it all up to the tires is just too simple.

We all know the FW24 wasn't a very good chassis, wasn't bad, but could really not be compared with the Ferrari.
The F2002 has first of all a low and very efficiently shaped nose, which keeps pressure on the front wheels. Secondly, the center of gravity was lower than with any other car at that time. Renault may claim that isn't true, but it's there more in the weight of the car than just the engine...
Furthermore, the rear was made quite low, which kept more air flowing onto the rear wing, making it more efficient with the same amount of drag that other teams had.

What do we see in this year's tests? All cars shape the sidepods smaller and lower, and claim to have lowered the centre of gravity and the weight.. as usual in fact, but it's been more important than ever if they want to play in the game in 2003.

[Duact]

I still think it's the tires. Ok let's say the nose creates more downforce but then it also MUST creat more drag, easy fysics. They have found extrem grip compared to others, somehow! I remembered when Mclaren used Bridgestone the very last year along with Ferrari. Ferrari was during the years almost equal fast as Mclaren, but in suzuka they was suddenly a whole second(!) faster a lap.

And 2002 when it came to qualifying, Williams was really good. But when they began racing Ferrari applied that tyre modification and literally blew away from the rest of the field 4 seconds faster a lap! And it was only at the early laps, remember?! Schumi said so much about the tyres when Mclaren used bridgestone and now when they found something they haven't mentioned the tyres at all lately! This explains very much!
Read this about those tyres Ferrari cheats with: http://www.racinglines.com/article/articleview/1826/1/1

[Duact]

By the way, I knew this tyre thing before he tried his skill in that karting event. He was dominant, and he raced agains promising young drivers! That event just strengtened the fact that at Ferrari they have found a way to upgrade tyres, even go-kart tyres! I think Schumacher is lying and playing with the fans of Formula1. We are not stupid. Thank you!

[Steven]

In your opinion, "tuning" the tyres would mean that Ferrari would get a lot more out of them, even with Michelin than anybody else does...

It's as far as I can see nothing more than a pure mechanical difference. A seriously better suspension would couse the same results.. furthermore, Ferrari has managed to decrease weight further than any other team, including the parts that are directly connected to the wheels.

Tuning the tyres is in fact making the whole car, it's that complete weight you should bring to the ground with 4 tyres, and I can see no other option than pure mechanical stuff like suspension.
We know the Ferrari has been outstanding, and even the years before, some people had spotted a significantly different rear suspension system at Ferrari (which was copied by most of the teams between 2001-2001).

[Duact]

You are just talking fine tuning. Did you remember when MS got the new car for first time? Barrichello was driving the last years. At that race Ferrari didn't apply that tyre-thing. That was obvious because Ralf was at MS tail for the rest of the race and Barrichello was far down the field. At Williams they said that Ferrari F2003 was beatable. But next race they applied that modification again, and the williams team was depressed. They said that it's strange that suddenly Ferrari's car was 3 seconds faster a lap compared to race before. I agree. They wanted to see if it was neccessary to modify tyres like they have done before, and to see the REAL competetiveness of F2003.
Renault car has a lower point of weight but they lack grip like everybody else. Even if McLarens point of weight was positioned under the ground they wouldn't stand a chance since they grip is lacking!

[Steven]

I must admit I have difficulties believing what you are saying.

First of all why would ferrari have left out that tyre tuning in that one race, when they knew they could have been beaten?

On the other hand, there must be something, a difference of 3 seconds isn't nothing... for instance the BAR005 is 2 seconds quicker than last year, that is one big step, but still behind Ferrari, and I'm even comparing with the F2002. In tests nobody has beaten Ferrari this winter, where some teams are driving their new contenders, while Ferrari drives the F2002 over and over again beating the competition.
It's in fact a pity there's nobody alse here discussing, because I would like to hear some other people's opinions...

[Duact]

I know I'm right, it's very obvious. So, if you think Ferraris car is that fine-tuned and near the limit.. why haven't it had any failure, at all!!!? And they have had chance to win every race with no failure! McLarens wing have collapsed and other things, that's fine-tuning. Ferraris engine isn't even pushed! That was obvious in Indianapolis race. We could see the RPM in the bottom of the screen. BMW was reving up to over 18400 and so the Mercedes but Ferrari who had same type of engine was revving only 17500.. max! And it's not that it's tuned to have max power there, I know that too. You may clame it isn't the tyres but I have convinced many people it's that. Impossible to gain 3-4 seconds a lap without a completely new car.

BTW something that lacks in F1 is a bunch of people who watch that FIA is not doing something in secret, Ferrari have had to much help from them I think.

[Steven]

Well it absolutely makes a lot of sense, but in the case it is true there, I would be very interested in the materials they use to achieve that. And maybe some real proof, which I think may still take some time

Apparently hearing people saying that only the Ferrari tyres have that special smell of chemical products isn't a good sign at all! For that, I'd like to have an immidiate investigation, and if the FIA approves it legal, it should be shared with the other teams. This might be considered forgery by Ferrari or Bridgestone, or even both.

What you say about the FIA, well I totally agree with that, they have been clearly supporting Ferrari for some years now, with for instance a ridiculous judgement on the illegal barge boards in Malaisia some years ago. I sincerely hope Formula one will be led with a more straight to the point vision in the future. Unfortunately, real big changes might only be expected before 2008.

[Duact]

Great discussion. But what can a person outside F1 do? nothing! If just Ron Dennis or Frank Williams read this discussion, they would go HOT!

I meant "REAL competetivness of F2002" not "F2003" I mentioned before..

[Steven]

Would there accidently be anybody that knows how to reach an F1 driver or someone closely related to the sport?

We need some help here!

[Greg Sowell]

I was going to quote a part of one post, but haven't gotten the hang of it yet so I kept getting the whole post. Any tips on that?

The revs max mentioned at the USGP is part of the picture. If you were watching the RPM in the telemetry what really stands out is how broad the Ferrari's usefull range is compared to MB and BMW! That alone is worth more than a couple of tenths per lap.

Next everyone mentions weight. There is a mandated minimum, strictly policed, including weighing the drivers. The real advantage in weight reduction is two fold. First any reduction in unsprung weight means better and more consistent tire contact. Gee wouldn't that look a lot like stickier rubber? Second any weight reduction below the mandated weight means ballast. You can put ballast where you please, and you can bet it'll be as low as possible and located fore and aft in the best spot for balance.

Then there is the size, budget and stable personell roster of Ferrari's testing and developement crew. No other squad has one like it.
This is one of the reasons this year's cars look more and more Ferrari like.

,The air flow over the F2002 is way slick, and that gives the wings better action without an overall drag penalty. Odd no one is mentioning the undertray. Putting the exhaust out in preiscopes not only adds the massive airflow from the engine to the bottom side of the wing, it also opens up some subtle possibilities for groung effects. Remember exhaust used to exit below to enhance the diffusers. Putting it out the top leaves room for enhancement to undertray dynamics, witness the evolution of side pods, the coke bottle shape of the body and moves to clean up the airflow past the front suspension towards the undertray.

No wonder they added GA to the F2003 designation! He sprung the $ loose. I hate all the cheater accusations, they do nothing for the sport. But then having only the third spot on the podium contested does a lot less! $0.02 Greg

[Duact]

I found this text on another site. I don't believ it's only finetuning, whatever you say. So much faster was the Ferrari at cruising speed.

"Apply a thin layor of Black treacle (Golden syrup will also do but does tend to attrack more wasps), @ 1mm thick per 10 lap stint. Therefore a 2.5mm coating should see you through to 1st pitstop. This will ensure a performance advantage of at least 3 secs per lap, Plus at this wear rate all evidence will have disappeared by the end of the race !! Fantastic."

[Duact]

F2002 was perhaps fast, but does not explain why last years gained so much time suddenly!

[Steven]

idd it would be very much possible in theory, but whether it will hold during a whole stint is a quite radical decision I think...

you see the michelin tyres have become slicks at the end of some stints, which means the grooves have been filled with loose rubber and the bumps, which are at the start the only contact area with the ground, have certainly been stressed a lot, and thereby lost surface rubber due to wear.

I agree that is less to be seen with the Bridgestone tyres, but these also wear out... suppose you foresee your tyre of such a 2mm layer, after maybe one lap the tyres get more than 80°C , causing them to wear out due to friction (i.c. usage). Loosening rubber will also cause the "grip layer" to spin off the tyre.. after 5 laps you're all done with the secret, and what's next?
Still they remain fast...