Jos Verstappen: "Schumacher used TC in 1994"

[Giblet]

Benneton was not the only team which had a ECU with the codes for TC and LC.

Yeah but they were the only team that was being accused of actually using it and they were winning races. Not flundering around the midfield. Senna was not the only one with suspicions, but he was quick to air them. It was an overtone for the whole beginning of the season, and if you followed that season as it happened, it was mentioned as often as the flexing wings on the Ferrari of 2003 and 2004 throughout the whole calendar. Obviously Senna's death overshadowed much of the problem and discussion after, but it was not forgotten.

Everyone knew something was up, but you just can't accuse without proof or you will come out looking the bad guy. Benetton did a great job of leaving no proof of actual cheating other than the self erasing code. Unfortunately, the 2008 actions of Mr Briatore has, in my mind, made 1994 no longer a question to me. Actions speak loudly, and a proven cheat shows 'backwards precedent' if that is even a term. It was his brush he has painted himself and his team with, not anyone else's.

All this without even bringing up the fuel filter removal.

[chillah]

Option 14 was for bananas and 15 for turtles i guess....
Come on guys, his car wasn't illegal. How could you explain his steering corrections during the races?
Do you think the telemetry is faked as well?

Sorry for my bad english.

[wesley123]

What has steering corrections to do with traction control and launch control? Not to even mention the fueling rig

[Dragonfly]

Actually what is TC built into a racing car for?

[beelsebob]

Actually what is TC built into a racing car for?

Uhhh... to provide better grip round corners and to compensate for drivers getting it wrong?

[Dragonfly]

In fact you give a good answer to the question above my previous post

[Just_a_fan]

How about Senna and other reporting the sound of TC comming off corners?
IF it was JUST Jos the Boss you might have a reason to doubt,,But when it was the whole of the F1 community? Come on,,,put down the rose colored glasses.

A friend was working as an engineer in F1 at the time: "We all knew they were running TC, and I mean the whole pit lane knew!"

[jdlive]

Benneton was not the only team which had a ECU with the codes for TC and LC.

Yeah but they were the only team that was being accused of actually using it and they were winning races. Not flundering around the midfield. Senna was not the only one with suspicions, but he was quick to air them. It was an overtone for the whole beginning of the season, and if you followed that season as it happened, it was mentioned as often as the flexing wings on the Ferrari of 2003 and 2004 throughout the whole calendar. Obviously Senna's death overshadowed much of the problem and discussion after, but it was not forgotten.

Everyone knew something was up, but you just can't accuse without proof or you will come out looking the bad guy. Benetton did a great job of leaving no proof of actual cheating other than the self erasing code. Unfortunately, the 2008 actions of Mr Briatore has, in my mind, made 1994 no longer a question to me. Actions speak loudly, and a proven cheat shows 'backwards precedent' if that is even a term. It was his brush he has painted himself and his team with, not anyone else's.

All this without even bringing up the fuel filter removal.

I don't think many people doubt the cheating. I do doubt it being isolated to Briatore/Schumacher though. Perhaps their's was the most obvious, but in practice all teams at least have the intention to bend the rules. Whether they succeed or not is up to their creativity. It's a winning at all costs sport.

[jdlive]

Verstappen is arrested today.
The reason: driving into his 24 year old ex girlfriend.
She needed medical care in an ambulance.
Hope she is alright.
Makes me think about the validity of the quotes from Verstappen.
It is on dutch newspaper websites.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2698/Spo ... ndin.dhtml

I wonder if he used Launch Assist?

I believe that a lot of unresolved questions in this topic can be answered by conducting a 'control' experiment devised with Schumacher, the car used in the assault and Verstappen's 24 year old girlfriend.

The hard part is to persuade the girlfriend to participate and sign waivers. "It is going to be OK honey, the paramedics will be standing right by all the time..."

LOL

[jdlive]

Obviously it is clear that Verstappen is nowhere near the level of driver Schumacher is. That we cannot argue here. The matter at hand here is the argument of the legality of the B194 Schumacher ran. Bashing Verstappen has nothing to do with the topic whatsoever and only shows the lack of maturity on the poster's part.

I myself am neither a Senna nor Schumacher fanboy, so let me rule this out immediately before anyone else nullifies my opinion for being on of the two.

I firmly believe that Schumacher was running an illegal car in 1994, and a majority of F1 fans past and present also share the same opinion. The ONLY reason that Benneton was the efforts of Ecclestone and Mosley made to manipulate the FIA world council. Despite knowing that Benneton was in the wrong (and attempting to cover it up at that), both let the team off the hook due to the fact that excluding Schumacher from the world championship would be catastrophic to ratings and sponsors in Germany. That is why there is no evidence of any wrongdoing (TC that is). And if there wasn't, you cannot overlook the fuel rig, Silverstone DQ, and Schumacher's move on Hill at Adelade. Also, why would Benneton run a ECU knowing there was illegal code? That there is just asking to be penalized. The team was a sham and whether Schumacher knew it or not, there is no doubt that they were in the wrong. It is simply a shame that the FIA did not do more at the time.

Just my two cents, and thank you for having me part of the community.

THE FIA BANNED THE SYSTEM BECAUSE EVERYBODY STARTED TO USE TC AND LC.
They banned TC and LC while in the season or developing a car. Lots of teams couldnt develope a new one in time so they choosed to use the same ECU but without any activation.
Benneton was not the only team which had a ECU with the codes for TC and LC.

Read more learn more, then give your opinion.

Exactly, I wouldn't calling it cheating really. It's using the rules flexibly.

If he was really cheating openly, don't you think other drivers would have protested, by stopping to participate? I sure as hell wouldn't drive against someone knowingly using cheats and I doubt Senna and others would. His cheating would be over soon when he was the only one driving around on race day.

[chillah]

What has steering corrections to do with traction control and launch control? Not to even mention the fueling rig

Maybe it was a bit unclear. I meant countersteering, if you lose the back of the car.

[raymondu999]

TC would only help with that on corner exit with wheelspin, not with instability on entry though.

[chillah]

if you watch some onboard videos of that time then you can see that he often countersteered at the exist of a corner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIhZxXAPoZk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyGhIJgDdY4

[Giblet]

The fact that he had to make corrections does not mean he had no TC. The technology was still in its infancy, and even on more modern cars it hds to be dialed in to get it right. He would not have had that adjustment, and different factors like uneven road surfaces or going into a corner with too much rear momentum.

The cars still twitch with TC, just like cars with ABS can still briefly lock the wheels.

[strad]

Perhaps their's was the most obvious, but in practice all teams at least have the intention to bend the rules. Whether they succeed or not is up to their creativity. It's a winning at all costs sport.

What an attitude...