Jos Verstappen: "Schumacher used TC in 1994"

[Tyler]

Wasn't Verstappen dropped for the last 2 races of the '94 season and replaced by Herbert, in the hopes that he could help the team win the constructors title, which they narrowly lost to Williams?

It doesn't make sense, if the team were pushing so hard for the constructors, that they shouldn't do everything possible to make BOTH their cars as quick as possible.
Herbert however struggled in the car just as much as Verstappen, also complaining that the car was very twitchy at the rear and difficult to drive.

If the team were ambitious enough to change drivers that late in the season in a last ditch attempt to win the constructors, surely the second car would have all of the bits the first car had?

Also in '94, Schumacher was not yet a World Champion and surely would not have had the same pull in the team as he would have at say Ferrari in '96?
I think at that stage winning the constructors would have been more important than satisfying the ego of, giving in to all the demands and giving that level of preference to a driver who was not yet even a World Champion.

Some might argue that they didn't tell Jos or give his car these benefits out of fear that he would blab to the FIA, however I'm sure, working as close to their team and team mate as F1 drivers do, he would have noticed something amiss and then having been made to look a fool, his chances of going to the FIA would have been much greater.
If he is revealing this now, then he must have known back then - why didn't he say something?
He could have blackmailed the team (he has shown lately that he isn't a very nice guy after all), he could have got anything he wanted out of them including having all the benefits on his car as Schumacher did.
So he knew that Schumacher's car had the advantage and could have insisted that his car had the same, yet he chose to do and say nothing, instead choosing to look like a bad or at least much weaker driver than Schumacher, letting his F1 career be jeopardised?
Then after be sacked by the team for the publicly acknowledged reason that he wasn't good enough, he did absolutely nothing?
Sorry but this makes no sense whatsoever!

The facts are:
-Jos never said anything about it at the time, he simply stated that the car was difficult to drive, suiting Schumacher's driving style and not his
-NO traction control hardware NOR software was EVER found on the B194.
-A launch control program was found but the FIA could never proved it had been used.

I think that Benetton didn't use traction control but probably did use Launch Control and that in the interests of winning the constructors it was probably on both cars.
Even with launch control, I think that the Williams FW16 was definitely a much better car and that it was still a remarkable achievement for Schumacher to win the title in 1994.
The whole traction control debate seems like an attempt to discredit Schumacher and prove that he was just a pretty average driver but sorry right from his very first race it was clear that Schumacher was a cut above the rest.

[strad]

And on it goes.

[jdlive]

Perhaps their's was the most obvious, but in practice all teams at least have the intention to bend the rules. Whether they succeed or not is up to their creativity. It's a winning at all costs sport.

What an attitude...

What an attitude what?

[manchild]

Perhaps their's was the most obvious, but in practice all teams at least have the intention to bend the rules. Whether they succeed or not is up to their creativity. It's a winning at all costs sport.

What an attitude...

What an attitude what?

It is the attitude proving my desire for age check on this form, because only a kid who started watching F1 in "Schumacher era" or after it, without learning about F1 history, someone who considers him the creator of the F1 universe, a supreme 7 title creature, could write such opinion, based on what he had witnessed in the former sport, the sport that was completely destroyed ethically during 90s and 00s by Bernie, MoSSley, Schumacher, Todt - the 4 riders of F1 Apocalypse. F1 and motor racing existed many decades before them, based on a completely different ethical basis - knighthood and sportsmanship.

Your comment offends all those former drivers and engineers including drivers who got killed or disabled while playing it fair, but you're either not aware of what you've said, or you have no problem with it.

[Tyler]

In the latest twist in the saga, Verstappen has been charged with manslaughter.
It seems as if any further interviews he partakes in will be from the confines of a prion cell.
http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/01/08/verst ... ment-27762

[manchild]

Bottom left, TC adjustment knob (green, 1-2-3-4):



http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=be ... b5ef7a8bd1

[SeijaKessen]

Interesting picture.

I wasn't following F1 heavily in 1994, but a few of my friends who were, have all said over the years to this day they believe Schumacher and the Benetton team were a bunch of cheaters.

After reading this topic, I don't know what to make of everything entirely, but I do think Senna knew something was up. I don't believe he would have just said something to say it. I have heard of way more people suspecting something was going on with Schumacher and the B194 than of those who think things were on the up and up. I

[SeijaKessen]

It is the attitude proving my desire for age check on this form, because only a kid who started watching F1 in "Schumacher era" or after it, without learning about F1 history, someone who considers him the creator of the F1 universe, a supreme 7 title creature, could write such opinion, based on what he had witnessed in the former sport, the sport that was completely destroyed ethically during 90s and 00s by Bernie, MoSSley, Schumacher, Todt - the 4 riders of F1 Apocalypse. F1 and motor racing existed many decades before them, based on a completely different ethical basis - knighthood and sportsmanship.

Your comment offends all those former drivers and engineers including drivers who got killed or disabled while playing it fair, but you're either not aware of what you've said, or you have no problem with it.

I'll always maintain Bernie and Max were the two worst things to ever happen to F1. Well Tilke too just for his track "design". I wish all 3 of them would disappear.

[wesley123]

if you watch some onboard videos of that time then you can see that he often countersteered at the exist of a corner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIhZxXAPoZk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyGhIJgDdY4

Excuse me but to me it seems more like diff settings etc. than traction control. The counter steering seems to happen when he starts using the throttle again. It seems to be between real corner exit, thus starting to floor it, and the apex of the corner. Like Herbert also said the car was really twitchy, I'd would rather say it is the cars nature or setup than TC

[Tyler]

It's amazing to see the difference between the steering wheels of back then and those of today.
They were so less cluttered back then.

[Cuky]

This is my first post here, so greetings to all first.

manchild has just confused me a bit, so I have to ask. You posted this picture:

Bottom left, TC adjustment knob (green, 1-2-3-4):

where you say that it is from b194 car. But as far as I remember watching onboard laps from Schumacher's car in 1994 this is how cockpit of b194 looked like



Also, as I did watch f1 1993 season review I think that cockpit you posted is from b193, as it had had steering wheel shaped like that.

[SeijaKessen]

Cuky-

If you look at the left side of the picture Manchild posted, there is a plate that says Benneton B 194-xx, I can't make out the 2 numbers after the 194.

[Mandrake]

It is the attitude proving my desire for age check on this form, because only a kid who started watching F1 in "Schumacher era" or after it, without learning about F1 history, someone who considers him the creator of the F1 universe, a supreme 7 title creature, could write such opinion, based on what he had witnessed in the former sport, the sport that was completely destroyed ethically during 90s and 00s by Bernie, MoSSley, Schumacher, Todt - the 4 riders of F1 Apocalypse. F1 and motor racing existed many decades before them, based on a completely different ethical basis - knighthood and sportsmanship.

Come on manchild, if we argued the other way round about age checks I would also call for age checks of "elderly people that have lost the view on reality". Please do not take this as an insult, but you sound a bit like a grandfather, sitting in your rocking chair, talking about how everything was better in the past and feeling absolutely bitter about the Germans beating englishmen in F1, after you brits have defeated them in WW2.

Taken the rose coloured glass off there was about as much unfair behavior and cheating in the past as there was in the short term past. Some teams even built completely illegal cars.....back then it was celebrated as innovation. And the driving wasn't fair either.....I rather see Schumacher "parking" his car in Monaco than seeing a certain driver crash into another certain driver on purpose right after the start.....etc. pp.

It's been all the same every year, the fastests team / teams were accused of cheating. McLaren in 1998 (or was it 99?) beat the hell out of the competition with their 3rd pedal......and today RedBull is accused of having illegal stuff on their car. Flexing wings, flexing floor, illegal EBD, variable ride heigth, illegal Q3 mapping and whatsoever. Nobody would cry out loud had they come 3rd every race.

The Code in the ECU of the B194 can be explained. The lack of necessary sensors is evident. If at all, they could have used Launch Control. Of course that would have been illegal, but it's not winning you races. We should stop here now as we'Re turning circles......for a couple of pages now

[manchild]

That photo shows MSC's B194 that was on auction at ebay. Perhaps illegal electronics was in the round steering wheel, which wasn't sold by Benetton together with the car?

http://i.auto-bild.de/ir_img/6/8/3/1/6/ ... 06a639.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_oC5L-Z4TQg4/S ... 194ua3.jpg

http://i.auto-bild.de/ir_img/6/8/3/1/6/ ... e9a097.jpg

BTW, I have nothing against young people, what I wanted to point out is that one can't define F1 as sportless win by any mean kind of competition, simply because that became modus operandi of certain people and the F1 ruling body. I always look at F1 as whole, from 1950 onwards, and if there were decades of fairplay and knighthood prior to mid 90s and what followed under MoSSley regime, than as a fan I raise voice to stand for those virtues.

The feeling I have is that certain young people like one I've confronted opinions with, have no desire at all to learn about what went before, and so they build whole idea of what F1 is on its shameful period, that was unfortunately the time they started watching it.

I was young too, but I loved reading about Fangio, Moss, Clark, Stewart... even about pre-WWII GP era, and based on all that I've learned, I find it offensive when someone defines F1 as "winning at all costs sport", simply because one driver and people that surrounded him, made success with such methods, and got away with it as they were blessed by former FIA führer.

[Cuky]

Thanks for clarification. I was little confused seeing one steering wheel on onboard footage and other here.