Unrestricted Performance

[IchII3D]

Hey guys,

I was wondering what peoples opinions are on how fast a Formula 1 car could actually go if you removed regulation. Obviously removing regulation would ruin the sport, but to actually make the worlds fastest racing machine would be fascinating. There is Formula 1 technology dating back to the 80's which is still beyond anything we see today things like active suspension, giant fans etc...

Do you think we would be talking about a small percentage gain of possibly 5-12% lap times or do you really think its possible to make a machine that wipes the floor with everything seen previously?

I have never followed Le Mans but isn't the highest class of that more in tune to a less restricted formula 1 car? They cover the tires which is generally the first thing any formula 1 team would do if they could. But how restricted is Le Mans? Do you think a Le Mans car would beat a Formula 1 car?

I'm rambling a little here, but does anyone know what the fastest racing machine on the planet is?

[ESPImperium]

First of all, you cover the wheels and gain an extra 10% aero pewrformance.

Then all in one go, V10 Screamers, develop the hell out of them and youll posibly get 1500hp out of them, add a KERS/HERS/VERS/SERS system that can add an extra 500hp as well. Active Suspension, Reactive Ride Height, Fluidic Aero, adaptive aero and all that jazz. Thats probably an improvement of arround 40-50%.

Then you get the survival cell enclosed, increasing performance by 10% more.

Then its all down to stopping, brakes, wheels and tyres. Probably get another 15% out of the car then.

Look at the Red Bull X2010 in Gran Turismo, thats what it would probably look like.

The problem is that you would probably do Spa in about 1 min 10 to 1 min 20 range, Eau Rouge would be taken at a flat 350kmh on the first run. The top of Kemmel would be arround 444kmh+, whitch is 300mph for those using metric. Drivers would have to use G Suits not Nomex racing suits as Eau Rouge would be pulling close to 7.5 negitive Gs then simmilar in the other direction.

Monza would be a track that would be done in arround 40 seconds by my estimate.

An F1 car at present would do Le Mans in arround 3:45, LMP1 cars are doing it in 3:25.

[ajdavison2]

How long is a piece of string?

[IchII3D]

Great insight ESPImperium, I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to the technical aspects of racing. I'm assuming that means currently Le Mans is the fastest performance racing series in the world?

To think a car might actually be able to go this fast is mind blowing. Although it would also be a death trap, each hot lap would probably have a low survival rate.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu2hDKg0sQg[/youtube]

[george1981]

Although the possibilities for a completely unrestricted F1 car are infinite how about only considering F1 technologies that have been banned? So you'd stil get cars that looked pretty similar current cars but with more technology.
So you could have a car with traction control, active suspension, ground effects etc. less restriction on aero but still having open wheel and cockpits, and with the best F1 engine that has been raced to date. How fast would that be?
I guess the cars would be hell of a lot quicker through the corners but on the straights there wouldn't be as much of a gain.

[ESPImperium]

Great insight ESPImperium, I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to the technical aspects of racing. I'm assuming that means currently Le Mans is the fastest performance racing series in the world?

To think a car might actually be able to go this fast is mind blowing. Although it would also be a death trap, each hot lap would probably have a low survival rate.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu2hDKg0sQg[/youtube]

In terms of speed, LMP1s can now push 340kmh to 350kmh easily at Le Mans, however when it comes to laptime arround Le mans thay are faster than a F1 car. Thats what you need for Le Mans, a car thats skinny on downforce but complient arround most of the corners. Its only Arnage you dont optomise for as its the slowest corner on the track there.

When a LMP1 goes to Hungaroring for instance for the 12hr race there, they are about 12 seconds off the pace of a F1 car due to downforce, they just dont have it, and thats where they arnt the fastest. GP2 cars are about 2 seconds faster than a LMP1 at Hungaroring.

F1 is the fastest at most tracks, its only the longer tracks, and when i say long, i mean 13.6Kms of Le Mans Long, not 7.004km of Spa.

If you were to crack F1 cars open season, you would even go down to having fuel for ballast, ane even fuel that was so corrosive that you would need to use petrol to wash the engine bl;ock out after you used it. Simmilar to what happened in the 80s with the first Turbo era.

[Belatti]

ESPI, I think you are a little bit optimistic about the gain in laptime from an unrestricted F1 and a little bit pesimistic about a current F1 lapping arround La Sarthe.

[WhiteBlue]

There are reasons for performance curbs and they make sense. So this is all about a wet dream really. But if you follow Chapman's engineering philosophy you would surely have a turbo engine and not a big naturally aspired V10 or V12. You would have six tons of downforce, 2,000 horses and it would be deadly around every known tracks unless you let the cars run under automatic computer control. Probably a good idea for very expensive RC cars.

[bhall]

...or drivers with big, heavy balls. (For ballast, of course.)

[Pierce89]

ESPI, I think you are a little bit optimistic about the gain in laptime from an unrestricted F1 and a little bit pesimistic about a current F1 lapping arround La Sarthe.

+1

A Spa spec 2011 F1 car could KILL an R18 even at the Sarthe. Probably around 3:10

[jordangp]

Yeah, I agree. A low downforce packaged modern F1 car could beat the LMP1's at Sarthe.

[jdlive]

I'm cumming at the thought of seeing that Red Bull X2010 do Eau Rouge at 350 kph

[wrcsti]

I'm cumming at the thought of seeing that Red Bull X2010 do Eau Rouge at 350 kph

How about a X2011?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7ySBD-x ... re=related

[Reca]

As mentioned by others F1 would be considerably quicker than LMP in any track, La Sarthe included.

Remember that LMP1 is minimum 900kg driver excluded (thus 950-960 minimum), while a F1 is 640kg driver included, a difference of over 300kg is going to have huge impact on performance, no matter if rest of specs are potentially more favorable, just look at how F1's performance changes full tank vs empty, and that's "only" 150-160kg difference.

Additionally, F1 has more power, and can be as fast if not faster in straight line in spite of the open cockpit and wheels (fastest LMP do peak 342-343 in Le Mans qualifying, while fastest F1 cars in Monza can get to 347-348)

Last time LMP1 raced in Monza was in 2008, the 1000km, pole position was 1'31" and something. That's about 2-3" over what F1 cars did in 2011 in first laps of race with full tank driving in "tyre preservation mode", and 9" over the pole positions of the last couple of years. (and over 12" above the unofficial record of track set some years ago in testing by Badoer with F2004, 1'18"7...)

ACO rules changed a bit since then though, aimed at reducing performance especially reducing power; Peugeot and Audi tested in Monza last year (March and May respectively), and their laptimes were in the order of 1'29"-1'30", but that was by not using first chicane, thus going full throttle all the way from exit of Parabolica to Roggia, with possibly a little lift for Curvone.

That being testing they certainly weren't pushing at 100% (still... Aston Martin few weeks later with same layout was doing 1'36"...) probably some seconds can be gained but surely not as much as it would be lost having to negotiate the chicane (7-8s) so on the standard layout they would be probably couple seconds slower than 2008, meaning somewhere in range 1'33"-34", 11-12" from F1.

[ESPImperium]

ESPI, I think you are a little bit optimistic about the gain in laptime from an unrestricted F1 and a little bit pesimistic about a current F1 lapping arround La Sarthe.

On reflection you might be right. Ive just done La Sarthe in 3:21 in GT5 with a Ferrari F10, the most recent F1 car in the game. Might try it in a F2007 to see if theres any diffrence. Might try Monza in the F10 with the same settings as i had for La Sarthe now. Trying to get an effective and objective baseline is the tough thing.

My figures may be a little too optomistic, however if the money, facilities and brain power is there, they could be achived.