What price F1 speed? What would be cheapest solution?

[ringerz]

Something got me thinking the other day - Formula One regulations are constantly being amended in order to, amongst other things, contain the speeds of the cars. Were it not for this the speeds of the cars would be far far higher than they are currently. I have read interviews with designers saying that with complete freedom of the aerodynamics the cars would be 20+ seconds a lap faster around a place such as Silverstone (discounting the fact that a driver has to drive the thing) and that is before taking into other posibilities - 4 wheel drive, Active Ride, CVT boxes, forced induction, increased engine size, 6 wheels - etc

My question to folks more knowledgeable than I isn't how fast a car could be made, but rather how easily/cheaply could someone produce a car which goes as fast around a circuit as a modern day F1 car - if it didn't have to conform to a rule book of any sort.

[simieski]

Not very easily and certainly not very cheaply I would hazard a guess at. It wouldn't be simply a case of bolt on all the things that have been banned to make cars slower over the years. To produce a vehicle even close to F1 lap times would require extensive design, cfd and wind tunnel work. On top of that materials like carbon fibre and other composites, as well as components such as engine and gearbox assemblies would be very expensive in themselves.

[IchII3D]

I don't have much overall car knowledge, but I am aware of the Atom. Its by far as fast as an F1 car, but its structure, weight and engine have it up there with the fastest when it comes to handling and accelleration. There is also another company making similar cars with more aero performance and more power. But I don't have many details, but its the cheapest mainstream way I know of.

http://www.arielmotor.co.uk/

[flynfrog]

[raymondu999]

Lotus T125?

[andylaurence]

A Gould GR55B can be picked up second-hand for under £100k.

[Scootin159]

I would suspect that given infinite rule flexibility, and with modest regard for safety, you could match F1 speeds for about $150,000. The SuperKart posted by FlynFrog could already top an F1 car at a lower speed track, and can be had for $10,000 or so. At a higher speed track you would need more horsepower to overcome the aero drag and keep up with an F1 car, necessitating a bigger engine, which means a higher curb weight, which means more aero, which means.... etc.

I suspect the easy way to get there would be to use a turbocharged 2.8L Holeshot Racing v8 motor (based off the Hartley V8, based off the 'busa motor). That will get you about 1000hp for about $50k. Behind that put a lightweight Hewland transmission that will take that torque, and you're out another $20k. That leaves you $80k to build a chassis to hold it all, which should be enough for a simple steel tube frame/fiberglass body combination along with some nice big wings and ground effects tunnels. All told it would be a rather unweildy car to drive without significant testing/refinement, but it should have enough speed down the straights to get you there.

[N12ck]

Start looking at KZ1 karts, they can cost in the region of £5000 and they are awesome, my mates driven a KZ2, (Same engine pretty much) without the wings, and they are costing about £2000 for an average one, but you wanna go fast cheaply, look at KZ2 karts (ICC),

[andylaurence]

Superkarts are very fast, but they are nowhere near an F1 car. They are often similar in lap time to an F3 car. To illustrate the point, the Superkart record around Castle Combe Circuit is ~66 seconds. Stewart Robb almost broke the 60 second barrier last year at the Great Western Sprint in a Pilbeam. F1 cars have not graced the circuit since the chicanes were installed in 1998, so there's no comparison we can make. However, Racecar Engineering have shown results of several contemporary hillclimb/sprint cars and a Benetton B198 in the wind tunnel and the cars were roughly comparable.

I would expect the next generation of cars that are now appearing to be closer in performance at lower speed venues. They're down to around 300kg, yet have strong aero and there's talk of supercharged engines that will be over 350bhp this year. It doesn't sound much, but the cars are barely half the weight of an F1 car in qualifying trim (~360kg vs 640kg).

[N12ck]

For the cheapest solution, superkarts are the answer (KZ2)

[Belatti]

The problem of all those propositions is that noone of them can pull 4G`s ++ braking and corniering as a F1 car does...

The answer maybe is an old F1 chassis with modifications like covered wheels, more power, less ballast, aero blablabla and stuff. You could build that with less than $300,000

[andylaurence]

Can a Gould pull 4G at 180mph? I've no idea. I have no data from one. I wouldn't expect them to be far off though, given the results of the wind tunnel results of similar cars shown in Racecar Engineering.

[flynfrog]

The problem of all those propositions is that noone of them can pull 4G`s ++ braking and corniering as a F1 car does...

The answer maybe is an old F1 chassis with modifications like covered wheels, more power, less ballast, aero blablabla and stuff. You could build that with less than $300,000

they dont have to pull 4Gs if they can do better on acceleration and braking they are also much narrower allowing a longer line in a corner less Gs


not exactly full f1 speed but as close as you will get for the $$

[andylaurence]

You need to pull 4G to do better on braking and nothing listed so far will be quicker on acceleration. A KZ2 Superkart may feel quick, but with a minimum weight of 175kg and about 45bhp, you've got the power/weight ratio of a Mitsubishi Evo FQ400 or about a fifth of that of an F1 car. Still quick for a couple of grand though, but so is a motorbike.

[N12ck]

You need to pull 4G to do better on braking and nothing listed so far will be quicker on acceleration. A KZ2 Superkart may feel quick, but with a minimum weight of 175kg and about 45bhp, you've got the power/weight ratio of a Mitsubishi Evo FQ400 or about a fifth of that of an F1 car. Still quick for a couple of grand though, but so is a motorbike.

KZ2's can reach speeds of 120mph or there abouts, it depends on the budget, if your budget is about £2000 then KZ2, if its £5000 then KZ1.

If your looking for excitement go for KZ2, if your looking for 'feeling like your in an f1 car' look at single seaters