McLaren 'High' Nose

[Callum]

Hi, first of all this is NOT a flame McLaren/fanboy thread.

I was just wondering what people thought about their nose design as it seems that ever other car has a stepped nose. Do people think McLaren have missed an oportunity, or are they the ones who have picked up on some performance?

[sAx]

Hi, first of all this is NOT a flame McLaren/fanboy thread.

I was just wondering what people thought about their nose design as it seems that ever other car has a stepped nose. Do people think McLaren have missed an oportunity, or are they the ones who have picked up on some performance?

Surely not too long to await outcome of test validation?

sAx

[gridwalker]

They didn't do too badly with a similar nose last season whilst running against "true" high nosed cars. McLaren have been in this game for longer than almost any other competitor, so I have faith that they know what they are doing.

[manchild]

Having stepped nose is not an advantage by any mean, it is unwanted compromise imposed by change of FIA regulations, to which Mclaren was "immune", because their 2011 car was already meeting 2012 nose height regulations.

Mclaren had lowered chassis in 2011, same goes for 2012 chassis. That is why they didn't have to lower the nose.

They had advantage over other teams, and they've kept it. Having lowered chassis enabled them not to be forced to have stepped nose and ruin car's aero efficiency.

[joseff]

From the RB8 thread, quoting James Allison:

Q: From a design viewpoint, how difficult has it been designing the transition, because surely such a step is going to create a lot of turbulence?

JA: Upper surfaces of noses are quite insensitive. It is the lower surfaces of noses where all the action is, and if you look at everyone's lower surfaces they don't have anything ugly happening on them.

[raymondu999]

From the RB8 thread by Raptor22:

McLaren's low nose concept dates back to 1993 with the MP4/8. The splitter was present but they maintained a low nose since that date.
In 1995 they tried that ridiculous car that look like a baracuda with a hat.
Even in 1996 through to 2000 (the Newey years) they maintained a low nose.
I cannot recall McLaren ever having a high nose car.
The philosophy is to not compromise the suspension performance for the sake of aero efficiency.
I believe it to be one of the reasons why the McLarens are always able to get closer to the others cars while running in their wake. It rewards an aggressive driver with an opportunity to get his car's nose into a corner an harrass the other driver.

This is possibly due to the downforce originating from almost the entire car and not just the floor and diffusor.

The philosophy of building race drivers cars has always been something Ron Dennis bought into and Neil Oatley believes in that philosophy wholeheartedly.

I doubt we will ever see a high nose McLAren while Dennis and Oatley are at McLaren.
Although Paddy Lowe is chief designer these days, the Oatley influence I suspect is very strong being director of Engineering

[mahesh248f1]

I have a bad feeling that teams are going to get rid of the stepped nose concept mid way this season.

[thestig84]

Im finding the whole nose talk quite tiring. Can anyone point out the equivalent thread to this last year when Mclaren nose was second lowest to HRT?! No because there wasnt any talk of it.

Just because the step noses are ugly and obvious to the eye its a talking point where it would not normally be. The high nose teams dont want a step!! Nor do Mclaren and fortunately the rule suits them. Their philosophy, there's no right or wrong and wont change mid season.

[joseff]

How? The only way to remove the step is to change the whole monocoque.

[shelly]

Im finding the whole nose talk quite tiring. Can anyone point out the equivalent thread to this last year when Mclaren nose was second lowest to HRT?! No because there wasnt any talk of it.

Just because the step noses are ugly and obvious to the eye its a talking point where it would not normally be. The high nose teams dont want a step!! Nor do Mclaren and fortunately the rule suits them. Their philosophy, there's no right or wrong and wont change mid season.

+1 The issue is the same as lat year, and the low nose has not hindered McLaren much.
But one could argue:
-Mc lost to rbr which featured a high nose
-ebd last year changed tha ball prk of floor flow.

personally I agree with you, with evolution being the line of thought of most teams

[Raptor22]

Its a concept choice.

High nose is there to ase he flwo to the splitter, the floor and the diffusor. It also makes thecar more sensitive to the quality of air flow coming in.

the McLaren low nose is in essense a multi splitter design; one splitter right under the nose and behindit an aggresive expanson zone, and midships the std floor splitter that raises poresure on the floor and helps lower pressure under the car.

It also allows for a car with better suspension that works the tyres better. In 2011 McLaren MP4/26 made the best use of its tyres.

Remember designes can opt for many paths to achieve the necessary performance.
I believe most of the cars are producing good peak downforce figures but few are producing downforce curves that show smooth shedding and pick of downforce around a lap.
Remember downforce is proportional to speed and the efficiency of the car's body in producing it.
How the balance is affected is dependant on suspension performance and where the downforce comes from.
With a low nose the Mclaren probably needs that front ride height to be as constant as possible ifit was relyin solely on the floor splitter. With the nose splitter it likely reduces the pich sensitivity quite drastically allowing a more compliant front end (bu still stiff)

The key to the different concepts relies heavily on the details. There is no one single simplistic answer.

What held McLaren back in Silverstone last year was the fact that theymissed the trick of running more rake for the floor. They did raise the bum a bitbut thelow nose compromised howmuch they could ultimately raise it.
I think for 27 they took that into account so we should see a better overall performance from the car from the first gp

[mahesh248f1]

Im finding the whole nose talk quite tiring. Can anyone point out the equivalent thread to this last year when Mclaren nose was second lowest to HRT?! No because there wasnt any talk of it.

Just because the step noses are ugly and obvious to the eye its a talking point where it would not normally be. The high nose teams dont want a step!! Nor do Mclaren and fortunately the rule suits them. Their philosophy, there's no right or wrong and wont change mid season.

Well its just the feeling that I have, I might be very well wrong, but I would be surprised if the cars remains the way it is mid season , there will definitely be iteration.And talking about right or wrong , I have seen Honda testing something that looked like a elephant ears to me back in 2006/07 season. I am not against any ones philosophy , but when things go wrong it all changes.

[garx]

does anyone knows if aero demands after the ban of EBD favour high noses that much?
last year's rules permited nosees higher then this year,didn't they? and mclaren had low nose then...

[beelsebob]

You don't have to be an aero specialist to see that they've had it for a good few seasons, including ones where others have had high noses, and it's continued to work well.

[PlatinumZealot]

The Mclaren nose is not even low by any means. It is still a high nose concept. If you look under their chassis it is almost the same height - maybe 20 to 30mm lower than other teams. Not low by any means.

The BGP01 was a low nose - not this MP4-27.