2012 Testing - Jerez 7-10 February

[dren]

Possibly. Again though - about helping with the brakes. That's because they had more downforce. The brakes didn't become better because of the exhausts - that's a function of the extra downforce afforded. If you get where I'm going with the differentiation. Again, I don't think the EBD could intrinsically change the handling/balance in a way that can't be countered - it just moved the setup window.

I understand what you are saying, and I agree. I am thinking the EBD generates more downforce at lower speeds due to the off throttle maps. You could make up for the lost downforce at lower speeds with your wings, but you would submit to much higher drag numbers. That was my thinking.

Since it was noted that the Red Bull had a high top speed, perhaps they were running a lower drag set-up, which wouldn't help braking.

It is early days, all teams will surely make set-up adjustments.

[spadeflush]

MSC had good consistent laps all ranging from 1-22's to 1-23's. Source - Williams Site.

What modifications did Mercedes run of the W02??? I mean no EBD right?? Periscope exhausts??

They definitely ran the EBD today. Thats the best way to compare tyres isn't it, by running a complete 2011 spec car...I have a feeling they ll run the periscope exhausts tomorrow

[raymondu999]

Was it their end-of-2011 spec EBD, or the one that exited at the middle of the side pods?

[dren]

Was it their end-of-2011 spec EBD, or the one that exited at the middle of the side pods?

End of year EBD. It was the one they slapped on at Silverstone I think. The car looked just like it did in Brazil.

[Morteza]

Was it their end-of-2011 spec EBD, or the one that exited at the middle of the side pods?

Dren beat me to it.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Ok I'll make it simple.

Having a car with steep rake, with a wing that hugs the ground will differ from a car that doesn't.

And to say that ebd will work mainly in the slow stuff is actually incorrect. Why?

Red bull where at times 0.4 seconds faster through just 1 high speed corner than either McLaren or Ferrari. This was resultant from the ebd, which allowed the team to have a high rake which allowed the team a low front wing which allowed them big aero points in fast corners....

[Mr.S]

It would. Losing Downforce means you have to complete alter everything to find every trickle of extra speed. Ferrari sacrificed their mechanical grip & superb traction for downforce during the 2nd part of last season.

That & set-ups cant just occur like that. The whole car has a philosophy. You wont just put on an inferior rear wing & say wow this balances everything out. Slower but balanced. They will rather try to muscle a faster but less stable car.

And Grip would change from rear to front,how much I cant says. Depends on the whole car,last year & this. But yes GRIP would change. The whole tyre grip maybe has slighlt modification.

Oversteer & Understeer characteristic will definitely change with such a huge change in level of grip & downforce too

[Mr.S]

Ok I'll make it simple.

Having a car with steep rake, with a wing that hugs the ground will differ from a car that doesn't.

And to say that ebd will work mainly in the slow stuff is actually incorrect. Why?

Red bull where at times 0.4 seconds faster through just 1 high speed corner than either McLaren or Ferrari. This was resultant from the ebd, which allowed the team to have a high rake which allowed the team a low front wing which allowed them big aero points in fast corners....

I disagree,Mclaren gained much more through EBD due to Mercedes' far superior Hot Cooling to Renault's Cold Blowing & The Mclaren car suited EBD as well.

By the end of the year Mclaren's speed was almost as good as RBR through fast speed corners & sometimes even better like in Japan.

Mechanically I would say espcially in riding bumps like Singapore showed RBR was far more superior to Mclaren than in high speed corners.

[dren]

Ok I'll make it simple.

Having a car with steep rake, with a wing that hugs the ground will differ from a car that doesn't.

And to say that ebd will work mainly in the slow stuff is actually incorrect. Why?

Red bull where at times 0.4 seconds faster through just 1 high speed corner than either McLaren or Ferrari. This was resultant from the ebd, which allowed the team to have a high rake which allowed the team a low front wing which allowed them big aero points in fast corners....

The EBD helps everywhere, the off throttle maps help mainly under braking.

[raymondu999]

Red bull where at times 0.4 seconds faster through just 1 high speed corner than either McLaren or Ferrari. This was resultant from the ebd, which allowed the team to have a high rake which allowed the team a low front wing which allowed them big aero points in fast corners....

I don't think you could isolate that to the EBD to be perfectly honest. The Red Bulls if you think back to 2009 Barcelona, were quicker than the Brawns through Turn 3 and Turn 9 in Q2. Rubbish in Sector 3, but quicker in Turns 3 and 9. That had no exhaust, and not even a double diffuser (which the Brawn had).

The 4 tenths margin is also something that happened in 2010. Even then it was only in Turn 8 Turkey. They never achieved that kind of dominance over single corners anywhere else during the year. In 2011; they have NEVER had that kind of dominance through single corners.

[dren]

What tires did DiResta make his best run on?

[Uhlenhaut55]

Does anyone have information as to how much higher Massa's leg position is due to the pull rod suspension compared to other cars? Draining the blood from his legs I presume ... :/

Btw.: my first post ... hello everybody

[raymondu999]

I thought the rockers were further ahead of the feet though I could be wrong. Welcome to the forums Rudolf

[H.Lyoud]

What tires did DiResta make his best run on?

Soft Compound

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Red bull where at times 0.4 seconds faster through just 1 high speed corner than either McLaren or Ferrari. This was resultant from the ebd, which allowed the team to have a high rake which allowed the team a low front wing which allowed them big aero points in fast corners....

I don't think you could isolate that to the EBD to be perfectly honest. The Red Bulls if you think back to 2009 Barcelona, were quicker than the Brawns through Turn 3 and Turn 9 in Q2. Rubbish in Sector 3, but quicker in Turns 3 and 9. That had no exhaust, and not even a double diffuser (which the Brawn had).

The 4 tenths margin is also something that happened in 2010. Even then it was only in Turn 8 Turkey. They never achieved that kind of dominance over single corners anywhere else during the year. In 2011; they have NEVER had that kind of dominance through single corners.

In 2009 the DDD distorted everything.

Further to this, both McLaren and Ferrari had new concepts to deal with the rules. Only brawn was ahead due to the DDD and front wing.
Gradually red bull clawed that back with their own DDD and vastly superior front wing. Allied to brawn imploding after the first 8 races, any conclusions drawn are vague at best.
In 2010 red bull were sealing their diffuser with exhaust gasses. No one else really cottoned on.
2011 every one was doing it.

I'm not saying that red bull are ebd dependant. What iam saying is that the rb8 will have different characteristics to the RB 6 and 7 due to it not being allowed to blow the diffuser.
Newey himself said the RB5 is near enough the rb8s closest ancestor in that respect.
So we can expect them to be quick again. But losing the ebd for red bull is very far from being sorted by set up change as you suggest.