Are we seeing a Vettel era?

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.

Are we?

Yes
55
39%
No
85
61%
 
Total votes: 140

Giblet
Giblet
5
Joined: 19 Mar 2007, 01:47
Location: Canada

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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While watching last year, and following the race thread, when Vettel passed Alonso on the grass I remember thinking "His car is so much faster, why such a high risk move? Two wheels on the grass and your foot buried in it?" then read people online saying it was the pass of the year.

To me, and me is all I can vouch for, it seemed like a bad move for a driver who tends to react erratically when in close proximity to other vehicles.

He is getting all this practice driving an F1 car. I want to see him get some experience racing one now.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

bhall
bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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In a very, very weird way, this conversation has given me insight into something I never would have thought to seek out: NASCAR.

I can now see why someone would say, "F___ it. We'll remove as many points of contention as possible by having everyone drive the same car in a big f'n circle. Got it? Good."

That never made a lick of sense to me until now.

mnmracer
mnmracer
-26
Joined: 17 Sep 2011, 23:41

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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bhallg2k wrote:In a very, very weird way, this conversation has given me insight into something I never would have thought to seek out: NASCAR.

I can now see why someone would say, "F___ it. We'll remove as many points of contention as possible by having everyone drive the same car in a big f'n circle. Got it? Good."

That never made a lick of sense to me until now.
Why can you not answer a very simple question I asked?

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
0
Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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mnmracer wrote:
@JohnsonsEvilTwin
How is not dogging your race suddenly a bad thing?
A dogged drive is very different to dogging! :D
(excuse that I couldnt resist.)
mnmracer wrote:And please, do tell me, how often have Alonso and Hamilton beaten a faster car?
More often than Vettel.
mnmracer wrote:Also please, do tell me, how often have Alonso, Hamilton, Schumacher and Senna won from the back?
From the back, I mean from outside the top ten.
More could have been done.
David Purley

mnmracer
mnmracer
-26
Joined: 17 Sep 2011, 23:41

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:
mnmracer wrote:And please, do tell me, how often have Alonso and Hamilton beaten a faster car?
More often than Vettel.
Do you actually know, or do you just have a hunch?
JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:
mnmracer wrote:Also please, do tell me, how often have Alonso, Hamilton, Schumacher and Senna won from the back?
From the back, I mean from outside the top ten.
Again, do you actually know, or do you just have a hunch?
Because I do know.

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
0
Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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Giblet wrote:I want to see him get some experience racing one now.
Looking at the test times, Hamilton and Vettel doing race sims....they appear neck and neck with the same sort of drop off and consistency.

I hope you get your wish!
More could have been done.
David Purley

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
0
Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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mnmracer

If I'm being honest, I cannot be asked to trawl through wikipedia right now to get the stats to say that All the aforementioned drivers have won races placed lower on the starting grid than Vettel, some outside the top 10.

But I do assume that to be the case. If you can point me to Vettel winning a race placed lower on the grid than any of those drivers, can you show me please?
More could have been done.
David Purley

bhall
bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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mnmracer wrote:Why can you not answer a very simple question I asked?
I did answer, but the answer was removed.

Rather than point out all of the instances of flawed logic in your reasoning thus far, I made a blanket statement that said you have a fundamental misunderstanding of Formula 1. I sincerely believe that, too.

I didn't mean it at all as an insult; it was just seen that way and removed as a result. (It happens, you know?)

To be fair, though, I also said that I don't think it's necessarily your fault, as it were. We all have ideas that make no sense whatsoever, and we tend to carry those ideas around until we're shown otherwise. And that's what I am (was) attempting to do.

I'm not saying you're unintelligent or a bad person or anything along those lines. You're just misinformed at the moment.

EDIT: In addition to my inexplicable NASCAR revelation, this conversation is also letting me know that I really need something to do during the day.

mnmracer
mnmracer
-26
Joined: 17 Sep 2011, 23:41

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:mnmracer

If I'm being honest, I cannot be asked to trawl through wikipedia right now to get the stats to say that All the aforementioned drivers have won races placed lower on the starting grid than Vettel, some outside the top 10.

But I do assume that to be the case. If you can point me to Vettel winning a race placed lower on the grid than any of those drivers, can you show me please?
I was just wondering. The certainty with which you made your statements made me wonder, but I am glad that you are open to learning a bit more.

I won't bother you with all the drivers listed, you can refer to the article here for that, but the highlights:
  • Ayrton Senna only won 2 races starting lower than the second row, and finished on the podium only 6 times not starting in the top 6.
  • Out of his many wins, Michael Schumacher won only 6 races starting lower than the second row, and finished on the podium only 9 times not starting in the top 6.
  • Juan Pablo Montoya, Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel have never won a race starting lower than p4.
  • Fernando Alonso won only 3 races starting outside the top 4, one of which was 'crash gate'.
Fernando Alonso
27 wins, 73 podiums
* Won 48% of his races from pole (13 / 27)
* Won 63% of his races from front row (17 / 27)
* Won 89% of his races from top 4 start (24 / 27)
* Took 27% of his top 3 finishes from pole (20 / 73)
* Took 36% of his top 3 finishes from front row (26 / 73)
* Took 63% of his top 3 finishes from top 4 start (46 / 73)
* Took 82% of his top 3 finishes from top 6 start (60 / 73)

Lewis Hamilton
17 wins, 42 podiums
* Won 53% of his races from pole (9 / 17)
* Won 76% of his races from front row (13 / 17)
* Won all of his races from top 4 start
* Took 33% of his top 3 finishes from pole (14 / 42)
* Took 57% of his top 3 finishes from front row (24 / 42)
* Took 93% of his top 3 finishes from top 4 start (39 / 42)
* Took 98% of his top 3 finishes from top 6 start (41 / 42)

Sebastian Vettel
21 wins, 36 podiums
* Won 76% of his races from pole (16 / 21)
* Won 95% of his races from front row (20 / 21)
* Won all of his races from top 4 start
* Took 67% of his top 3 finishes from pole (24 / 36)
* Took 86% of his top 3 finishes from front row (31 / 36)
* Took 97% of his top 3 finishes from top 4 start (35 / 36)
* Took 97% of his top 3 finishes from top 6 start (35 / 36)

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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Thanks for the stats :D

Sebastian Vettel has won all bar one of his races from the front row of the grid.
Alonso converts....36% of wins outside the front row.
Hamilton ..............24%.
Senna..................20%(himself the recipient of some pretty handy machinery)
Schumacher.............24%(ditto Schumacher)
Vettel..................5%.

What does this tell you about Vettel?
Last edited by JohnsonsEvilTwin on 22 Feb 2012, 17:26, edited 1 time in total.
More could have been done.
David Purley

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raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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He puts it on the front row when his car is capable of winning?

I know the notion of winning from the back is romanticised. But in a way, in my personal opinion, it throws the importance of qualifying away. I mean, if race and quali were dry, why would the guy's car be fast enough to win the race but not be fast enough for pole? People say Mark Webber's China drive was fantastic. It was. Definitely. But how on earth did he put the pole-king RB7 out of Q1?

I just feel sometimes qualifying is underrated as a skill.
Last edited by raymondu999 on 22 Feb 2012, 17:36, edited 2 times in total.
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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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@ray

are you suggesting the other drivers, and there are better drivers on that list IMO than Vettel, are not?

Edit my SPELLING is horrific!
Last edited by JohnsonsEvilTwin on 22 Feb 2012, 17:56, edited 2 times in total.
More could have been done.
David Purley

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raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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JET- I editted my post as you were posting. See my post above
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JohnsonsEvilTwin
0
Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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raymondu999 wrote:He puts it on the front row when his car is capable of winning?

But in a way, in my personal opinion, it throws the importance of qualifying away. I mean, if race and quali were dry, why would the guy's car be fast enough to win the race but not be fast enough for pole?
Ok so with this in mind, the RB7 was on pole 18 of 19 races. What does this tell you about the car?
More could have been done.
David Purley

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

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To me, it says that 18 out of 19 weekends, it had the fastest car+driver package in qualifying
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