2012 Tyre Temperature & Pressures

[bitbp]

First of all. Hello everyone. Im new to this forum and glad to be here.

Now to the point.
Did anyone posted this?



Seems Ferrari at some point been using realy high tyre pressure. Thats Fernando Alonso (FA) tyre setup for a stint.

1.7 bar is quite high (I believe recomended its 1- 1.2)
Some people aims this means about 12-15% less grip and about 30ºC less in tyres.

If they have been using this tyre pressure for tests, it could explain why the car looks so nervous and has high degradation on tyres.
Ferrari could be playing with everyone to make other teams believe they are in "bad shape" when they are not...

[Crabbia]

1.7 bar is quite high (I believe recomended its 1- 1.2.
Some people aims this means about 12-15% less grip and about 30ºC less in tyres.

If they have been using this tyre pressure for tests, it could explain why the car looks so nervous and has high degradation on tyres.
Ferrari could be playing with everyone to make other teams believe they are in "bad shape" when they are not...

really interesting, thanks for the post. i dont think they would sabatage their data like that i think it would be pretty hard to corrolate it back to 'normal' tyre pressures.

i'm no expert but could they possibly be running higher tempratures to compensate for the lower ambient temp in the tests to model normal ambeint temps more closely?

Could they also be testing their modeling and simulation software by putting in extremes, (high tyre pressure, low ambient temp) and seeing if their simulations correlate to the car on track.

Also, maybe they have the opposite issue from last year where all the press during testing were saying the F150° was on rails, and when it came to the races it was off the pace and suffered tyre deg.

but that last bit is me hanging onto positivity and hope for this car.

[Goran2812]

aren't those tire temps really low? 90 degrees centigrade is the optimal working temp for them,right?

[raymondu999]

I've heard 100 quoted before

[Mr.G]

Due to the temperatures - there are only three boxes, it should be some info abut pre heat or something like that. If it sholud be for the whole sting the template should have more rows like we see before.

[kebab]

1.7 bar is quite high (I believe recomended its 1- 1.2.
Some people aims this means about 12-15% less grip and about 30ºC less in tyres.

If they have been using this tyre pressure for tests, it could explain why the car looks so nervous and has high degradation on tyres.
Ferrari could be playing with everyone to make other teams believe they are in "bad shape" when they are not...

i dont think they would sabatage their data like that i think it would be pretty hard to corrolate it back to 'normal' tyre pressures.

They could have done that. The paper has the date of March 2 which was the third test and if Ferrari had collected all date they need, they could have done this during their long run just to fool other teams.

But it's just me thinking though....

[ema00]

I've heard 100 quoted before

we have to know if the tires were super soft, soft, medium or hard, if were supersoft it is a normal temperature of working, if were hard is not (too cold)

[raymondu999]

I always understood the compounds to have the same (ballpark) figures for working temps - it's just that some were harder to bring up to said temp.

[Fredy4]

Around 90 DegC is the optimum for some semi road tyres, such as the Toyo R888.

Surely on an F1 car its higher?

I dunno.

[hardingfv32]

harder tires works at hotter temperature, this is sure

Why?

Brian

[Hush]

harder tires works at hotter temperature, this is sure

Why?

Brian

I would also like to know. I was under the impression that the compounds operated optimally within the same temperature bracket with the only difference being the time it takes to heat the different compounds.

Maybe, the harder tyres operate better at a higher temperature which increases the stickiness of the compound. I don't know much tyres to be honest.

[Mr.G]

harder tires works at hotter temperature, this is sure

Why?

Brian

I would also like to know. I was under the impression that the compounds operated optimally within the same temperature bracket with the only difference being the time it takes to heat the different compounds.

Maybe, the harder tyres operate better at a higher temperature which increases the stickiness of the compound. I don't know much tyres to be honest.

I think it's like this, if the tyres must have the same diameter hard or soft type, the thicknesses of the "ruber" compound must be the same. So to make the tyre softer you use less "bond" in the compound. And what the heat do is the brake down of the power of the bond. So if in harder componud is more bond (glue I don't know the exact name for it) you need to add more heat to the cmpound to breake the the bonds.

[GrizzleBoy]

Why?

Brian

I would also like to know. I was under the impression that the compounds operated optimally within the same temperature bracket with the only difference being the time it takes to heat the different compounds.

Maybe, the harder tyres operate better at a higher temperature which increases the stickiness of the compound. I don't know much tyres to be honest.

I think it's like this, if the tyres must have the same diameter hard or soft type, the thicknesses of the "ruber" compound must be the same. So to make the tyre softer you use less "bond" in the compound. And what the heat do is the brake down of the power of the bond. So if in harder componud is more bond (glue I don't know the exact name for it) you need to add more heat to the cmpound to breake the the bonds.

Well, you want the tyres to be "sticky"/"gummy"/"flexible" so that they can stretch as you put load on them and get the maximum amount of surface area on the road at all times.

Usually, to make something that is solid turn "sticky" and generally more maleable, you need to heat it up.

The "harder" the consitution of the material you're trying to heat, the higher the temperature needed for the chemical reaction to take place.

It's why carbon is used for motor brushes and is seen as self lubricating. As the motor works, the carbon breaks down where the contact is made via friction and changes its state to become its own lubricator. It will continue doing this until they wear right down like tyres do as they are transferring their rubber to the road during the race which we see as marbles.

If a harder material like steel (drastic I know) was used, the temperatures needed for breaking down the contacting area to reduce friction would be MUCH higher.

[raymondu999]

When you generally make something malleable and sticky through heating - isn't it basically starting to melt, at least at a micro level? I gey what you're saying though - sort of like what happens when you're using a strip heater

[PhillipM]

There's chemical adhesion with a tyre, more heat = faster reaction = more grip.

Up until a point anyway.