Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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xpensive
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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raymondu999 wrote:
JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:Perhaps there is a planted agent in Mercedes? Planted by someone else? Newey has already said that he has encountered those before
Interesting, do you have the piece where Newey mentions this?
I saw this from a link on F1Fanatic (fantastic blog btw) http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... ering.html
O'boy, from The Sun at that, gives the theory a whole new dimension of credibility, doesn't it?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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I dont think they can quote him without him saying it, otherwise we'd have a libel case.
More could have been done.
David Purley

xpensive
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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“Perhaps the most outrageous example of gamesmanship I came across was when a team planted an engineer at one of my former teams for a year."

Could this be Nicholas Tombazis by any chance?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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raymondu999
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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xpensive wrote:“Perhaps the most outrageous example of gamesmanship I came across was when a team planted an engineer at one of my former teams for a year."

Could this be Nicholas Tombazis by any chance?
Tombazis was with McLaren for 2 years. His return to Ferrari after McLaren does seem to fit the bill though.
Last edited by raymondu999 on 12 Jun 2012, 09:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Dann
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Yepp. No brainer, it sounds more like him....

Raptor22
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:
xpensive wrote:The strangest thing in all this, is that MS has always been hailed as the first driver to xpand outside the traditional role,
to actually build the team around himself, like he did at Benetton and Ferrari.

Doesn't seem to work so well this time, does it?
I didnt give much credance to this. A great driver yes, a background mover and shaker? No.

At Ferrari Schumacher did build a team around himself and Barrichello was given the same opportunity. Much of Barrichello's team of mechanics were actually also Michael's. There was a lot of cross pollenation to keep learning on both cars equal, hence the reliability record. Schumacher would name the guys he thought were doing excellent jobs. The team used those guys as rxamples to others be making them team leaders. The constatn rotation meant there was an incentive and gap for other mechanics to move up so they performed. This was central to Todt's management style. There were two constants in Ferrari meetings with our lads: Domenicalli and Martinelli. They always brought different engineers into meetings meaning they moved them around a lot, even on the testing team. They move test team engineers into race team positions and back again so that there was a constant transfer of knowledge.

At Mercedes, Schumacher is not that involved. He is not at the factory everyday, neither is Rosberg. They travel for meetings and but essentially they pitch up at the race track and drive. The family structure Jean Todt created at Ferrari is still there, although diluted, but it doesnot exist at Mercedes. McLaren are not too disimilar to Ferrari and REd BUll has cloned their org on the Ferrari model.
When Schumacher was a FErrari driver, he would oversee the working on his car. LIterally stand and watch and would tell the mechanics "Hey whats this, I prefer that. You forgot the locking washer..."etc etc.
Mercedes doe snot give him the same scope. The job is left to the mechanics and race engineer to oversee. Drivers drive, engineers, engineers, mechanics mechanic.

The truth around Schumachers 2006 campaign may never be known. He certainly won't tell but I doubt we will see him in Ferrari again even if they asked him nicely.

The team building aspect of Michael Schumacher has been vastly underplayed. When you take that away from him he simply does not find comfort. What is currently going n at Mercedes is strange. It certainly appears Merc only intended him to be a marketing tool so they could use his name to do with as they pleased. This is not outside the norms of corporate culture

Raptor22
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Schumacher, ever the class act:
From Planet F1
"Many have been critical about Mercedes' apparent inability to provide Schumacher with a competitive car, but even after the fiasco in Montreal, the former World Champion backs his team, insisting such problems are part of racing.

"I wanted to emphasise once again that Formula 1 cars are prototype vehicles and hundreds of components are made specially for them. For me, it's completely understandable that things can go wrong from time to time," Schumacher wrote on his official website.

"Of course it was a disappointing outcome in Montreal. But I won't lose my nerve or my faith in the team. I still believe that we will achieve something special together with Mercedes.

"There is no reason to blame anyone - unfortunate circumstances like these are part of motor racing. Indeed, I'm certain it's even tougher for the guys in the team. That's why I sat down with my race engineers immediately after my retirement, to discuss how we should approach the time before the next race and to make sure we stay in close contact over the coming days.

"Perhaps the only small advantage from the situation was that I managed to beat the traffic to get to the airport. I had already planned to fly back to my family as soon as possible after the race, so at least I was able to get away from the circuit just before the chequered flag was waved."


Well Michael we solute your dignity and perseverance, your dedication to the art of F1 and the team (that does not deserve your loyalty).
little me thinks you should exit Mercedes and rather spend the afternoons with Corinna and the kids. They deserve your attention far more than Mercedes or the thugs they call F1 engineers.

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mep
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Not a very long meeting when he left the track before the race was finished.
Anyways what do you want to tell as a driver to those guys? You probably need an engineering degree that they will even listen to you and even then they just pretend to do so.

Raptor22
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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well when he left he said very little to the engineers. His body language conveyed the message very clearly. He took no interviews save for the one he gave and was printed. He said nothing to Brawn. Despite all Brawn's talk about supporting Schumacher, its just hot air. Brawn has deserted Schumacher in the past and will do so again. He needs a fall guy and who better than your "friend".
Problem is it is now so blatant its obvious to even a blind man what's going on. Schumacher's loyalty may never be vindicated this season or even in his lifetime but the truth about Merc GP and the politics inside will come to light if someone digs deep and hard enough

Richard
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Raptor22 wrote:He said nothing to Brawn.
Are you saying he left the circuit without any conversation with Brawn? What's the source for that?

zyphro
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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I don't want to undermine Brawn, but Merc need a leader who isn't willing to take bull crap ala Jean Todt.

Raptor22
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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richard_leeds wrote:
Raptor22 wrote:He said nothing to Brawn.
Are you saying he left the circuit without any conversation with Brawn? What's the source for that?
According to the commentary on Dutch RTL yes he did.

marcush.
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100323

Ross has spoken...he has not ruled out sabotage ....well he did not mention the possibility...
But he has ruled out negligence or bad quality control or proceedures..Not much left on the table to explain what happened.
on a serious note .the mechnics will be ULTRA motivated now and triple check everything and THINK .On top of this one has to realise there is a possiility or risk with a formula 1 machine ,or any racecar and even with the best preparation you might get your failure possibilities reduced from say 1500 down to less than 100 with all the proceedures and processes ,quality control,limited running ,good tools etc etc ..but there is still something left which can go wrong.
Maybe a guy driving as long as Schumacher is bound to find a spell like this some day in his career ..Chris Amon seemed to lose all his luck as soon as he sat in a formula 1 car his entire career.. (but that may be a bit far fetched)

Raptor22
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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I don't trust a word that BS'er has to say.

BLah blah blah corporate speak, corporate euphamism, hyperbole etc etc.

No time line attached so the goal is frustrate Schumacher out of the way. There's never greater praise given than right before the shove out of the door.

Old corporate tactic,
and a pearler from my HR manager some years ago.

The role of management is to raise hope while lowering expectations.

yip Floss Prawn ticks both boxes

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siskue2005
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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richard_leeds wrote:
Raptor22 wrote:He said nothing to Brawn.
Are you saying he left the circuit without any conversation with Brawn? What's the source for that?
considering that he left before the race
Brawn should be on the pit wall and if at all MS came to talk to Brawn it would have been televised
so i think he jut talked to one or two engineers and left immediately

I remember how he was watching all the race from the pit lane at Australia and Monaco :(
He must be devastated to leave the circuit so early :cry: