Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

[spadeflush]

70% unreliability rate one car and 100% reliability(races) on the other car is pretty normal. NOT.

[Gerhardsa]

Why? Because people Seem to want to be childish and throw crap at the team when their hero falters.

Ahh JET, We all know that you only like (dare i say admire/idolize) Merc AMG and Rosberg and will defend them to the death. Amatures we are, BUT nobody is throwing unjustified crap at your hero whom is clearly faltrering in it efforts (or the lack therof) to get two reliable cars to the grid! 5 out of 7 retirements caused by the team is absolute BS in this day and age. Especially a team that is supposed to be a front runner. This aint HRT with a 75 people operation and $0 to spend!

Realistically, Schumacher wasn't ever going to be a favourite for the WDC.

LOL...Neither will Rosberg I suspect.

The team have screwed up on various occasions this year, yes. No one disputes this.
But to fling mud and start name calling is beyond belief from mere amateurs.

Diluting the fact.
"On various occasions" only if you take the lot of both cars into consideration, but in fact they F#%ed up more than 70% of Schumacher's races this year. Mudslinging = Justified me thinks. thats the way the world works JET.

Prawn? I mean is this F1technical or some shitty tabloid F1 site like crash.net?

A Prawn stinks, the teams stinks. Who is the head of this team? Ross Brawn.
There is no need to get techincal when calling a dick a dick my friend.

But hey..I guess today I am in a KAK mood as well, so I thought I'd say what everyone else in this forum is thinking

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Look at Vettel in 2010, suffering reliability issues in 6 races compared to Webbers 1.
Look at 2011 with Webber suffering almost the reverse of 2010.
2009? Kovalainen suffered 5 car failures to Hamiltons 2, and alot more besides.

So what is not Normal? Historically, there has always been a driver in a season that suffers far worse reliability than his team mate.
When faced with bad fortune, people invariably clutch at superstitions or look to apportion blame.

The reality is there is not much you can do to change your luck other than to carry on and remain calm.
If it is sabotage, it is not under the auspices of Mercedes....who could be leading the WCC right now had Schumacher not suffered his misfortune.

[Gerhardsa]

Look at Vettel in 2010, suffering reliability issues in 6 races compared to Webbers 1.
Look at 2011 with Webber suffering almost the reverse of 2010.
2009? Kovalainen suffered 5 car failures to Hamiltons 2, and alot more besides.

So what is not Normal? Historically, there has always been a driver in a season that suffers far worse reliability than his team mate.
When faced with bad fortune, people invariably clutch at superstitions or look to apportion blame.

The reality is there is not much you can do to change your luck other than to carry on and remain calm.
If it is sabotage, it is not under the auspices of Mercedes....who could be leading the WCC right now had Schumacher not suffered his misfortune.

Agreed JET, but that is during a whole season, not 7 races. We aint even half way yet (just over 1/3rd actually), in an era when F1 should be very good reliabilty wise... 5 out of 19 is ok'ich, giving abot 26% unreliability.

So far for the Nr7 Merc its at 71% with regards to the team (58% if you discount the pitstop issue in China)....which is worlds apart from 5-6 out of 19 for Vettel IMHO.

No wonder so many people are pulling the hair out of their heads. Something is not "lekker" and you know it.

1. Schu has not left for home right after he had a mechanical failures before (this season)...This time he did, showing that something is not right. You could see it.
2. Mechanics laughing and giggling in the pits after the failure and retirement of the car.
No...nothing is wrong with this picture!

I've been supportive and hopeful of Merc since the return in 2010, but what happened after this mechanical failure, made me raise an eyebrow.
You would know this saying. "Daar is n slang in die gras"!

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Good saying Gerhard....Die gras moet gesny wort!

DRS failure twice, and gearbox issue and a fuel flow problem.

The gearbox issue I can understand, as this was due to MS getting the carbonfibre gearbox on the updated rear. It was a quick decision that Schumacher would have approved of given that it was worth more in terms of time(solving tyre wear problems).
The fuel flow problem is one of those things that can happen to a driver at any time of the season. Not knowing the exact details I cannot comment further.
Thats 2 from 7 races.

What is inexcusable is the 2 DRS failures. It was not a case of foreign objects getting stuck between the activators etc. It was plain and simple failure.
They will be going over this problem forensically, of that I can be sure.

Each person who touched the part will be interviewed, the system will be checked over and over and the staff who install the device will be asked to fit, retro fit, fit, retro fit time and time again so that if there is a flaw in the installation it gets identified.
Once each and every detail has been checked, and nothing untoward has been found.....then you can start to question the integrity of some of your staff....ie sabotage.
I just hope Schumacher's bad run comes to an end and can actually get on with racing.

[Raptor22]

Obviously staged. A member of the TFHC would never be caught outside in official attire


JET, lets not skew the stats. In al those other retire situations the stats are over a whole season. There were finishes and race wins thrown in the mix.
At Mercedes we have not only a lack of reliability but flops on strategy calls,..........CONSISTENTLY ....on #7
Strategy calls, lack of reliability, shoddy workmanship, Mechanics proud of their underachievement and a boss unwilling to take action.
I recall Rosberg's CHina win, Schumacher was in the garage waiting to share in the moment and the mechanics ignored him when he came over to congratulate them. I"ve NEVER seen that in any other team before even at McLaren during the Prost Senna era. A driver snubbed by his own team.

JET When you decide to take the blinkers off, have a look back through the past 3 seasons, find the relevant clips of each incident Schumacher has had, read through the reports, you will see a common theme. Schumacher carrying some technical problem on the car. Rosberg has never has wheel nut failure, Schumacher has had all in the team and I think the count stands at 5 which is nearly matched only by Hamilton.
How many times has Schumacher had technical problems during free practice?
The bulk of the failures are carried on #7. Its on;y this year that these failures are so public and its clearly unsettling people at Mercedes. If Schumacher was really so positive about the situation he would be smiling when he says what he said. Instead smiles have not been forthcoming from #7 at Canada. His demeanour is starting to remind me of Senna in 1994

Where's there smoke there's a fire. By the time you choose to look it may only be the smouldering embers so I guess You will claim there is no fire and therefore everythings all right.

I hope the FIA bans KERS soon. With Mercedes incompetence and the risk fully charged batteries under a fuel pose to safety I would not trust the Mercedes mechanics to get something wrong in that system. I don't trust them with a spoon.

Bets on Schumachers technical failure in Valencia:

1) Engine
2) Kers
3) Wheel nut
4) DRS
5) suspension
6) other

I don;t want to get too creative because conducting FMECA on #7 will lead me to conclude Schumacher should not bother to turn up

Die gras kan nie gesny word nie want die grassnyer se enjin kort brandstof

[siskue2005]

The gearbox issue I can understand, as this was due to MS getting the carbonfibre gearbox on the updated rear. It was a quick decision that Schumacher would have approved of given that it was worth more in terms of time(solving tyre wear problems).
The fuel flow problem is one of those things that can happen to a driver at any time of the season. Not knowing the exact details I cannot comment further.
Thats 2 from 7 races.

which gearbox problem are you talking about?
the one when he was running 3rd at Australia?

or are you talking about changing the gearbox at bahrain AFTER he had the DRS failure?

[NewtonMeter]

My moer, dis 'n klein wêreld...

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Ahh JET, We all know that you only like (dare i say admire/idolize) Merc AMG and Rosberg and will defend them to the death.

Rosberg? I couldn't care less who drives the damn thing to be honest so long as they are quick. And Mercedes have 2 quick drivers.
I'm not defending the teams mistakes, as I have said there is a case to answer. Of which a full investigation will be taking place.
Mercedes will be fuming, Marcush himself is aware of Mercedes and their low tolerance for failure.

My angle is simple, the team has moved forward from last year in performance terms. Would Schumacher rather have a slow car that finishes races, or a temperamental one that is quick?
This has nothing to do with idolatry on my behalf, but of level headedness.

Rosberg's car has yet to fail. This indicates that it is not a factory flaw.
550 staff here remember 90 of which attend GP weekends. 460 staff doing there jobs. And of those 90 maybe 50 of whom are engineers or mechanics directly responsible for touching the car.
50% of these 50 are beyond reproach, as Rosbergs car is 100% reliable. So that leaves you 25 people on Schumachers side of the garage.
You can isolate it even further if you have the inner workings detail. But my guess is that the problems Mercedes have had with Schumacher's car has boiled down to a misfit of some kind by a handful of guys, I'm taking maybe 2 or 3 guys.

So when people start talking about cancelling orders for prospective Benz ownership, others about ineptitude, others about incompetence and others about Mercedes out to screw their star driver to suit some cockeyed marketing strategy(I was in fits of laughter at this), then Ja, I'm stepping up to the plate to defend the team.
No apologies for it either.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

or are you talking about changing the gearbox at bahrain AFTER he had the DRS failure?

Im sourcing from memory mate, on reflection didn't have a pit screw up too which isn't technically...a technical failure?

[Gerhardsa]

My moer, dis 'n klein wêreld...

Careful now maatjies, dont want to incur the considerable wrath of the mods.

Any how, I placed a bet on Schumacher to win a race yesterday. Tidy sum I put on it too.
He is capable, and the car is capable....just a matter of time.

Eventhough I support the old timer I wont be placing any bets on him soon, not because he is incapable (we all know he is very capable, no matter how you like or hate him), but because of his car.

I'd rather go with grojean or someone like little Perez for a win somewhere.

[Cocles]

But my guess is that the problems Mercedes have had with Schumacher's car has boiled down to a misfit of some kind by a handful of guys, I'm taking maybe 2 or 3 guys.

So when people start talking about cancelling orders for prospective Benz ownership, others about ineptitude, others about incompetence and others about Mercedes out to screw their star driver to suit some cockeyed marketing strategy(I was in fits of laughter at this), then Ja, I'm stepping up to the plate to defend the team.
No apologies for it either.

I agree completely, and I'm saying that as both a diehard Mercedes fan and a diehard Michael Schumacher fan. The gearbox problem was in Australia; he lost drive on the straight and had to drive through the grass, remember?

Either this is bad luck or Mercedes has a rotten apple in the barrel. For so many of us on this board to act as if this rotten apple represents the whole of Mercedes-Benz is ludicrous to say the least, let alone the concept that Mercedes-Benz or Brawn or anyone else of note within that team would want Michael Schumacher to not win is completely and absolutely absurd. Further, if there is a rotten apple, or a couple rotten apples, within the team, us allowing them to represent the team as a whole only lets those bastards succeed even further.

This is not the Michael Schumacher lover/Mercedes-Benz hater thread. In fact, this isn't even that forum.

[Raptor22]

Fits of laughter or Not JET thats how it works sometimes.
Honda favoured Senna because they saw him as Samurai. DO yuo know how valauble a NSX with his signiture on the doorsill is in Japan?! Agains they prefered a Brasilian winner because it had a positive ipact on their South American business. Honda in Europe is an established brand so no Europena driver, no matter how good is going to get as much focus.

Honda Favoured Piquet because they wanted to make inroads into the South American market in the early 80's. Mansell was ismply not favoured despite he being more Samurai like. Marketing spoke, the results were delivered. Senna merely carried that marketing strategy forward
Santander wanted a return on Alonso so they put pressure on McLaren for Alonso focussed results. They did not see the Hamilton side swipe coming a mile away.

A lot of results in F1 are driven by what sponsors want. The sooner you accept that the easier it will be to leave the naive asserions that F1 is sport behind. Its not. Plain and simple.

Now Will Mercedes get to the bottom of the problems in the Schumacher side of the garage before the season ends? I doubt it simply because they have never displayed an aptitude toward solving problems on their cars - BAR, HONDA , Brawn and Mercedes 2010,2011 seasons. Never solved a major problem ever, why should I beleive that this is all about to mysteriously change because Prawn has spoken. He speaks all the time but nothing happens.

The misguided belief that Mercedes are wanting a Schumacher success - I seem to recall a few board members being dead against it and not seeing the value. It is not outside the realms of possibility that any underhanded strategies are being orchestrated within the larger organisation.
If this was happening at Ferrari in the TOdt era, he would have pulled up a chair in the garage and watched every mechanic go about his duty. If he was not happy with something, Mr Domenicalli and Stepney would have been called and told to saught it out.. This usually resulted in a few people going home and others travelling in from Maranello. Don;t see Brawn doing that, but he is getting bigger isn't he. Probably a resultof not lifting a finger.

It is also not inconceivable to a level headed person that both Brawn and Schumacher are being set up for failure. But of course, this nevers happens in large organisations with internal politcs

[ArchAngel]

...Even though I support the old timer I wont be placing any bets on him soon, not because he is incapable (we all know he is very capable, no matter how you like or hate him), but because of his car.

I'd rather go with grojean or someone like little Perez for a win somewhere.

Would love to see MS get a decent result (never mind a win) from a reasonably trouble-free race weekend in order to finally arrest this ridiculously improbable spell of 'bad luck' for him. And I would congratulate Merc for finally providing him with the machinery to accomplish that, should it actually come to pass. But surely I cannot be faulted for not having the confidence to bet on this supposed mathematical 'certainty', given how ineffectual the team has been so far in addressing recurring issues of mechanical unreliability, pit crew inefficiency, and poor race strategies that seem to bedevil only car #7.

Hope my misgivings are proven wrong very soon. But right now the likes of Grosjean, Raikkonen, Perez, DiResta, Kobayashi and even Massa seem to have much greater chances of winning than car #7's probability of finishing a race minus any team-induced terminal incidents.

[Richard]

This thread has lost the will to live, so it is taking a holiday. It is stepping outside and may be some time. The tinfoil hat is leaking fanboys so needs to be repaired. Die gras moet gesny wort. Kak gebeur, ja?


The worst accusations of being a fanboy, blinkered and biased have been removed.