Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

[elf341]

I think the guys have entered a stage of panic, they went down the wrong road with "focussing on tyres", which could mean anything, but certainly we saw them allude to deprioritising aero updates. 9 GPs later they still don't know where they are, and have seemingly slipped from a potential 3rd fastest team to 5th at best maybe 6th or 7th. And they still don't know why they can't be as gentle on their tyres as 6 (SIX!) of the other F1 teams!
Compare with McLaren, they too - like Mercedes - identified the tyres as a strange mystery, but it appears they essentially have been following a rough plan of improvement like they always do. 1. Increase aerodynamic efficiency, 2. increase aerodynamic downforce. Button alluded to it himself at Germany:

"The more downforce you have, the fewer issues [you have] everywhere else," he said. "You can get tyre temperature, so you can take away the parts of the car we have had to put on to help, which will give us more downforce again.
"Downforce just helps everything: it covers up issues you can't solve any other way."

I think Mercedes have a case of severe panic, not seeing the forest for the trees, and essentially - taking huge risks by going down a path of performance improvement that is not standard. Brawn said it himself that in the past they merely increased downforce to improve performance, I know the tyres are different this year, but isn't it a bit risky to just decide to stop that tried and tested formula for performance improvement?

[marcush.]

my impression:
the car devised under Bell was quite a good step from what W02 and even more W01 had on offer.
But since then we have :axed Bigois replacing him with Willis (whoever hired him got should know willis was at Mercedes GP to discuss possibilities to use the obsolete 2nd windtunnel not applying for a job) and Costa joining the fray (surely a Brawn inspired move)and instead of a steep rise of the team we see a fall from grace in recent weeks when everybody would expect an effect from hiring so many high profile people.
The whole project is starting to fall flat on its face these days and I´m sure they need the summer break not to produce or develop parts but sort out the kings from the morons .
Bell and the new aero guy to stay and Ascanelli to take over the lead in the pits and we are on a good direction methinks

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

There is logistics to think of.

Bigois had many ideas. But he could never get them working.
The W03 is the most competitive car Mercedes have produced. It had the benefit of Bell to sift through it's workable ideas, and not so workable ones.
Bigois left his position what, 2 months ago? Mark Elliot, has yet to take up his postion as far as I'm aware.

If Bigois has gone, and Elliott yet to take the reigns, is it really a surprise Mercedes have stood still?
Elliott has got to hit bullseye. The W04 is already on the drawing board, so Elliot can probably just about make a few changes to suit. Maybe even a full shift, depends what he thinks of Bigois' work.

Anyone know when Elliott takes(or has taken) up the the role at brackley?

[marcush.]

They had it simply wrong in analysing the situation.
They did not question their own product but put the blame on a "complicated weak" tyre.Just remember how Schumacher attacked Pirelli and you know where the internal discussions were centered.
Now a few weeks on we see all teams getting on top of their developemnt going through 4or 5 sets of sidepod designs ,new wings ,difussers the whole shebang with new exhaust positioning etc.and converging towards a Sauber-REDBULL-Ferrari -Mclaren solution..
And Mercedes being clever stopping all concentrating on tyre understanding.

[SeijaKessen]

There is logistics to think of.

Bigois had many ideas. But he could never get them working.
The W03 is the most competitive car Mercedes have produced. It had the benefit of Bell to sift through it's workable ideas, and not so workable ones.
Bigois left his position what, 2 months ago? Mark Elliot, has yet to take up his postion as far as I'm aware.

If Bigois has gone, and Elliott yet to take the reigns, is it really a surprise Mercedes have stood still?
Elliott has got to hit bullseye. The W04 is already on the drawing board, so Elliot can probably just about make a few changes to suit. Maybe even a full shift, depends what he thinks of Bigois' work.

Anyone know when Elliott takes(or has taken) up the the role at brackley?

So should we expect the W04 to displace one of the current top teams for the 2013 season?

[xpensive]

But what if Elliott had come out of school before Willis, and Costa had joined Honda before Willis was born, while Bell never
had joined Renault and Zander was actually the nephew of the late Alfred Neubauer, the thought is mindboggling indeed?

[SeijaKessen]

But what if Elliott had come out of school before Willis, and Costa had joined Honda before Willis was born, while Bell never
had joined Renault and Zander was actually the nephew of the late Alfred Neubauer, the thought is mindboggling indeed?

[zyphro]

Let's be realistic: they have to bring out a C spec car after the summer. Otherwise this year is a write off.... again.

[zyphro]

I think Mercedes have a case of severe panic, not seeing the forest for the trees, and essentially - taking huge risks by going down a path of performance improvement that is not standard. Brawn said it himself that in the past they merely increased downforce to improve performance, I know the tyres are different this year, but isn't it a bit risky to just decide to stop that tried and tested formula for performance improvement?

I agree.

They don't have a clue what they're doing, and its evident: they don't even use any devices like flo-viz. They clearly don't have a development path hence the lack of updates. Do they even understand the car?

Switching focus to next year is a bogus argument - Ferrari managed to fix their car and are now ahead in the WDC. Merc have some serious questions to ask themselves. I still think Brawn is the wrong person for TP: he doesn't seem like a "no nonsense" type of guy, that someone like Todt was. He has to demand performance from his team, he seems too laid-back.

Perhaps he should go back to strategy...

[zyphro]

Anyone know when Elliott takes(or has taken) up the the role at brackley?

I remember Scarbs tweeting about Elliot at the start of the season.

https://twitter.com/ScarbsF1/status/206668477946265601

[Morteza]

I don't think what couldn't be done in 3 years can be done in a month. This team has been going around in circles for 3 years. That is not a short time. There is something fundamentally wrong with this team. All those recruitments hasn't paid off, really. Yes yes they have won a race, and have been great in Monaco, but a season is not two races long. Focus on next year's car?! Again?! We won't get fooled again by such statements. Time for new excuses, Ross and Norby. Come on! They are even slower than Sauber and Force India. Look where Sauber was in 2010 and where they are now. Force India in Q3 material. Both Williams cars have made it to Q3 in Hungary. Would we expect that Williams would be this good in 2012? Every team has progressed and brought updates to their car. Mercedes brought only one for Monaco and are done with it. Their car eats its tires for breakfast. Why can't they get anything tire-related with this car? I find the phrase "they are professionals and know what they are doing" simply does not work for this team. They never learn from their mistakes and do them again and again I'm simply baffled by how patient Daimler board has been with this team!!!

[xpensive]

I don't think what couldn't be done in 3 years can be done in a month.
...

I disagree, perhaps the three kings was a dead end but we shouldn't give up that easily. Now this Elliot-guy, maybe he knows a few blokes who has designed cars before and other than that, perhaps I can call someone down at the local garage?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Yes zyphro,

But there has been no announcement. Even Bigois' departure was muted.
I don't think Elliott has even picked up a pen in anger for Mercedes yet...

[SeijaKessen]

I don't think what couldn't be done in 3 years can be done in a month. This team has been going around in circles for 3 years. That is not a short time. There is something fundamentally wrong with this team. All those recruitments hasn't paid off, really. Yes yes they have won a race, and have been great in Monaco, but a season is not two races long. Focus on next year's car?! Again?! We won't get fooled again by such statements. Time for new excuses, Ross and Norby. Come on! They are even slower than Sauber and Force India. Look where Sauber was in 2010 and where they are now. Force India in Q3 material. Both Williams cars have made it to Q3 in Hungary. Would we expect that Williams would be this good in 2012? Every team has progressed and brought updates to their car. Mercedes brought only one for Monaco and are done with it. Their car eats its tires for breakfast. Why can't they get anything tire-related with this car? I find the phrase "they are professionals and know what they are doing" simply does not work for this team. They never learn from their mistakes and do them again and again I'm simply baffled by how patient Daimler board has been with this team!!!

MGP only won in China because it was the peak of the Pirelli Lotto. Not to mention, every other team got an idea of what the operating windows were for the tires while Merc apparently did nothing. I suppose when they were sitting at the round table hashing out things, the three kings got sidetracked in debates about whose job was what and forgot they were in the middle of a F1 season.

The tire issue to me says there is a balance issue with the W03, but no one cares enough to bother attempting to correct anything.

Somehow I picture after qualifying, instead of attempting to come up with solutions, Ross locks himself in a darkened room with a computer, logs into his Santander account to count his millions, and leaves everyone else to fend for themselves.

[zyphro]

Yes zyphro,

But there has been no announcement. Even Bigois' departure was muted.
I don't think Elliott has even picked up a pen in anger for Mercedes yet...

Not an announcement per se, but, I posted an article about Elliot being signed to Merc last week.

http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... 72318.html