Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

[zyphro]

. i think slowly but surely this team needs from change, a breath of fresh air.

That's exactly what MGP needs.

Recruiting Costa, Willis and now Elliot will pave the way for this. But, I still think there are a lot of gremlins out there that will halt the process.

[xpensive]

...
You actually tried to claim that Ross Brawn was simply a passenger at Benetton and Ferrari !

So please enlighten us, what did RB actually do at those teams, other than representing MrM?

just like any other technical director - overseeing the whole technical team (aerodynamicists, designers), improving processes, hiring of junior engineers, overseeing yearly development of the car. At Ferrari the job was even more challenging for him because when he arrived the design team was in England and there was no windtunnel in Maranello.

In addition, at Ferrari (and i belive also at Benetton) he was head of on track operations which meant he had the final say on all strategy calls. The improvement was clear to see from 1997 onwards.

With all due respect, hand on heart, isn't that a copy'n paste from a press-release or something?

[sidmiester]

. i think slowly but surely this team needs from change, a breath of fresh air.

That's exactly what MGP needs.

Recruiting Costa, Willis and now Elliot will pave the way for this. But, I still think there are a lot of gremlins out there that will halt the process.

yep... though whats scary is that mercedes has yet to sign new concorde deal. and wonder if mercedes will commit to long term in f1..
especially when currently team is performing awfully.

lol ur right.... there are possibly lot of problems from top to bottom that even costa willis and elliot cant do all alone. maybe we arent seeing but team are probably revising position....they should be doing that hehehehe especially these people earn so much!!! they should consider themselves lucky to work in f1...

[sidmiester]

under david richards this team was pretty good and they has become such a sucking team now... =D>

[zyphro]

. i think slowly but surely this team needs from change, a breath of fresh air.

That's exactly what MGP needs.

Recruiting Costa, Willis and now Elliot will pave the way for this. But, I still think there are a lot of gremlins out there that will halt the process.

yep... though whats scary is that mercedes has yet to sign new concorde deal. and wonder if mercedes will commit to long term in f1..
especially when currently team is performing awfully.

lol ur right.... there are possibly lot of problems from top to bottom that even costa willis and elliot cant do all alone. maybe we arent seeing but team are probably revising position....they should be doing that hehehehe especially these people earn so much!!! they should consider themselves lucky to work in f1...

Yeah, I feel this team is still in transition. And is taking longer than it did for i.e Newey to adjust at Red Bull. I believe this team was rigged with a whole lot more problems originally and a weaker density of talent with it. I'm sure the new recruits will make a big impact, but the question is: will it be enough?

[SeijaKessen]

So please enlighten us, what did RB actually do at those teams, other than representing MrM?

just like any other technical director - overseeing the whole technical team (aerodynamicists, designers), improving processes, hiring of junior engineers, overseeing yearly development of the car. At Ferrari the job was even more challenging for him because when he arrived the design team was in England and there was no windtunnel in Maranello.

In addition, at Ferrari (and i belive also at Benetton) he was head of on track operations which meant he had the final say on all strategy calls. The improvement was clear to see from 1997 onwards.

With all due respect, hand on heart, isn't that a copy'n paste from a press-release or something?

It reads more like what the job description would be for a Technical Director.

Jean Todt, Rory Byrne, and the FIA were the ones responsible for the turnaround at Ferrari.

Not really sure why Gerhard thinks Ross was the magician behind the Scuderia resurgence.

Having a good team principal and car designer are essential to building a winning car.

Come up with race strategy is important, but is also irrelevant if you do not have a car capable of winning because it's poor in design.

Gerhard also conveniently overlooks the glaring obvious, in that if Ross was so fantastic and essential to Ferrari and Benetton, why is he unable to do anything with MGP? Benetton and Ferrari both had a strong team principal in Flavio Briatore and Jean Todt. They also had a great chief designer in Rory Byrne.

Also of note is that John Barnard was chief designer for Benetton, and eventually got fired by Briatore, which turned out to be a good thing for Benetton since Byrne came in, and they had the 2 consecutive championships.

Barnard went to Ferrari, and eventually got axed there too.

MGP has neither because the team principal is Ross, and there is a design-by-committee deciding the direction of the cars right now.

I can't stand Flavio, but I actually do think he would be the perfect guy to come in and turn MGP, since Ross is clearly incapable of doing anything.

[Gerhard Berger]

just like any other technical director - overseeing the whole technical team (aerodynamicists, designers), improving processes, hiring of junior engineers, overseeing yearly development of the car. At Ferrari the job was even more challenging for him because when he arrived the design team was in England and there was no windtunnel in Maranello.

In addition, at Ferrari (and i belive also at Benetton) he was head of on track operations which meant he had the final say on all strategy calls. The improvement was clear to see from 1997 onwards.

With all due respect, hand on heart, isn't that a copy'n paste from a press-release or something?

nope, entirely my own words, but based on the many books i have read about Schumacher the Ferrari dream team.

[xpensive]

...
Also of note is that John Barnard was chief designer for Benetton, and eventually got fired by Briatore, which turned out to be a good thing for Benetton since Byrne came in, and they had the 2 consecutive championships.
...

Completely OT, but the the winning Benettons by Rory Byrne, all had a strange resemblance of Barnard's B191.

[Ganxxta]

It's really sad to see MSC waste the last years of his great career racing for those amateurs. I am definately sure he won't bother to sign an extension on his contract as there seemingly is no improvement of the team, and he will choose retirement over another 1-2 seasons of strolling in the midfield battling for low points with the likes of Vergne and Maldonado.

In regards to that, I just read an Interview today in german media, I think it was with Norbie, he said that Schumacher is not even thinking of renewing his contract just now, of course with a lot of PR blabla like that they will give him time as long as he needs and that the will respect his decision blabla etc.

He would be stupid to sign right now I think, no signed concorde, slower performance every weekend, no progress whatsoever, 5th(!) in WCC, no reliability when in matters and so on.
I think he will wait until the last race to see if he gets an offer from Lotus, Ferrari or even Sauber I think that would be the better option.

[Gerhard Berger]

It reads more like what the job description would be for a Technical Director.

hence i started my answer with "just like any technical director".

Not really sure why Gerhard thinks Ross was the magician behind the Scuderia resurgence.

I never said he was the magician behind Ferrari's resurgance. However, i do recognise the important part he play in Ferrari's revivial.

Having a good team principal and car designer are essential to building a winning car.

Definitely.

Come up with race strategy is important, but is also irrelevant if you do not have a car capable of winning because it's poor in design.

And do you think Ross Brawn had no input in the design of the car? Rory Byrne was just sat there designing the whole car himself?

Gerhard also conveniently overlooks the glaring obvious, in that if Ross was so fantastic and essential to Ferrari and Benetton, why is he unable to do anything with MGP? Benetton and Ferrari both had a strong team principal in Flavio Briatore and Jean Todt. They also had a great chief designer in Rory Byrne.

His role is different - he's a team principle now, rather than a technical director. Also bear in mind that it takes to build up to a winning point in F1, especially when the rules remain stable. Remember how long it took Todt to build up the winning dream? And that was with the large resources of Ferrari. Even Flavio took a number of years to get Renault winning again, after they lost a number of staff following Schumacher's departure, Brawn being (ironically) one of them.

Also of note is that John Barnard was chief designer for Benetton, and eventually got fired by Briatore, which turned out to be a good thing for Benetton since Byrne came in, and they had the 2 consecutive championships.

Barnard went to Ferrari, and eventually got axed there too.

MGP has neither because the team principal is Ross, and there is a design-by-committee deciding the direction of the cars right now.

I can't stand Flavio, but I actually do think he would be the perfect guy to come in and turn MGP, since Ross is clearly incapable of doing anything.

Fair enough, you're entitled to that opinion. Flavio does have an excellent record.

[NewtonMeter]

..and there is a design-by-committee deciding the direction of the cars right now.

Ok, hold on fellas. This team has come in for a whole lot of flak. And quite deservedly so, as this weekend has been bad and the development, frankly, piss poor.

But do you know this for a fact, or is this your opinion? Because I've seen no evidence of this. Evidence of poor priorities ("were focussing on the tyres"), sure. But this, no.

[SeijaKessen]

...
Also of note is that John Barnard was chief designer for Benetton, and eventually got fired by Briatore, which turned out to be a good thing for Benetton since Byrne came in, and they had the 2 consecutive championships.
...

Completely OT, but the the winning Benettons by Rory Byrne, all had a strange resemblance of Barnard's B191.

They were definitely similar, but Byrne did make a number of changes.

If you pull up pictures you can see some thing didn't change all that drastically, but other things did. The most noticeable difference on first glance was Byrne raised the nose higher, whereas most teams were still running a nose that was sloped downward; the Williams cars or McLaren's.

[fiohaa]

It's really sad to see MSC waste the last years of his great career racing for those amateurs. I am definately sure he won't bother to sign an extension on his contract as there seemingly is no improvement of the team, and he will choose retirement over another 1-2 seasons of strolling in the midfield battling for low points with the likes of Vergne and Maldonado.

In regards to that, I just read an Interview today in german media, I think it was with Norbie, he said that Schumacher is not even thinking of renewing his contract just now, of course with a lot of PR blabla like that they will give him time as long as he needs and that the will respect his decision blabla etc.

He would be stupid to sign right now I think, no signed concorde, slower performance every weekend, no progress whatsoever, 5th(!) in WCC, no reliability when in matters and so on.
I think he will wait until the last race to see if he gets an offer from Lotus, Ferrari or even Sauber I think that would be the better option.

its a shame for rosberg too - hes approaching his prime - and yet with no sight at all of a top seat in either mclaren, ferrari, or red bull, who pretty much all have their future mix of drivers sorted. he has absolutely no where to go, neither does schumi.

its an epic fail. Schumi came back because ross brawn asked him and he thought that Brawn would deliver. He hasn't, and its such a shame to see schumi's fight and aggression and desire to win go to waste. his performances in the wet and his pole at monaco (arguably the circuit where the driver makes the most difference), shows he has the ability - and hes got nothing to show for it.

you dont even see norbert haug at the races anymore...

[zyphro]

Dr Z has been far too patient (actually amazing how he's given so much trust in Brawn for three years). There needs to be an aggressive plan put in place now, else, MSC and ROS may as well just walk to a team that can at least deliver a solid and consistent performer: i.e Sauber and Williams.

I really do hope they have massive updates for Spa. It pains me to watch ROS and MSC trundle around fighting in midfield - they've proven already they're far better than that, they deserve A LOT more.

[marcush.]

when you think it cannot get any worse ...MGP has a new dimension on offer....what a mess .
Additionally we see complacent behaviour from the team ...ommitting important information when releasing their statements to the press ....it could be steered yes ..but this all seems to lead nowhere.
I feel very much with Michael who must feel like an idiot having been drawn into this mess.Brawn and Norby are history.Enough is enough.

After Brawns announcement :double chaeck everything and make sure nothing ever happens to michaels car ever again.. this race really puts the final nail in Brawns coffin....even Michael cannot save him now -the question is if he would even rise his voice for him now.