Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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elf341
elf341
5
Joined: 10 Aug 2011, 19:31

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Double DRS is now banned for 2013, against Mercedes' protestations.
Starting to look like a bit of wasted resources now.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101669

To be honest I'm a bit sad about this, not because of being a mercedes fan, but because I thought this was an interesting technological development that would be very interesting to see for us F1Technicians especially for the 2013 cars. After all, we've already seen the Lotus version which looks quite radical and different from Merc.

mx_tifoso
mx_tifoso
0
Joined: 30 Nov 2006, 05:01
Location: North America

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Sigh. Another one down the drain.
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NewtonMeter
NewtonMeter
5
Joined: 24 Jun 2010, 21:48
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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This is all very interesting, if true.

I've some mixed feelings, though. My conservative side says "don't change everything all at once and upset the applecart just as the new recruits settle in". But then again, realisation is slowly settling in that something needs to be done and things can't go on like this much longer.

So maybe we should trust Merc and if the team needs to go through some pain in order to weed out some snakes, then so be it. It will be painful, but something has to be done. After 49 races of this, I've got no more fxcks left to give. Just as long as they don't do a BMW and quith their tails between their legs, I for one will still stick with them.
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool...

zyphro
zyphro
1
Joined: 02 May 2012, 16:33

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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I'm pretty sure Bell will be over-seeing everything that is done at the factory, which is why Elliot has come along: he worked under Bell at Renault.

Confirmation of Elliot: http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2822 ... -mercedes/

sidmiester
sidmiester
0
Joined: 22 Mar 2012, 11:20

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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NewtonMeter wrote:This is all very interesting, if true.

I've some mixed feelings, though. My conservative side says "don't change everything all at once and upset the applecart just as the new recruits settle in". But then again, realisation is slowly settling in that something needs to be done and things can't go on like this much longer.

So maybe we should trust Merc and if the team needs to go through some pain in order to weed out some snakes, then so be it. It will be painful, but something has to be done. After 49 races of this, I've got no more fxcks left to give. Just as long as they don't do a BMW and quith their tails between their legs, I for one will still stick with them.
much needed change... whatever reshuffle they are doing, rightly so. brawn has been sticking with same staff since transition and it hasnt improved.

the best thing i could ever hear about this year on mercedes amg f1, is that bigois is kicked out. good riddance. the aero department has been simply disastrous, also R&D.

sidmiester
sidmiester
0
Joined: 22 Mar 2012, 11:20

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

Post

elf341 wrote:Double DRS is now banned for 2013, against Mercedes' protestations.
Starting to look like a bit of wasted resources now.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101669

To be honest I'm a bit sad about this, not because of being a mercedes fan, but because I thought this was an interesting technological development that would be very interesting to see for us F1Technicians especially for the 2013 cars. After all, we've already seen the Lotus version which looks quite radical and different from Merc.
felt as if the double DRS was not that effective in track. ... idea was promising, but similar to that of f-duct concept by mclaren.

so basically mercedes wasted quite amount of time and resources on that in the beginning of the season where they could have improved the aero and tires areas.

sidmiester
sidmiester
0
Joined: 22 Mar 2012, 11:20

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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zyphro wrote:I'm pretty sure Bell will be over-seeing everything that is done at the factory, which is why Elliot has come along: he worked under Bell at Renault.

Confirmation of Elliot: http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2822 ... -mercedes/

yeah man... i agree... think elliot probably came also because of bell. so i hope they work together with costa for years to come.

i wasnt also that convinced, well im not expert as some of u are... but the chassis design also didnt look that convincing, so with costa i think we can definitely improve.
Last edited by sidmiester on 31 Jul 2012, 13:39, edited 1 time in total.

sidmiester
sidmiester
0
Joined: 22 Mar 2012, 11:20

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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so gupdate says bigois is going to be ferrari's new aerodynamicist in the start of sept. ....

lillschumi
lillschumi
1
Joined: 07 May 2011, 13:46

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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It sound very plausible that Bell will step up and Brawn retire. Maybe it was in the purchase contract that Brawn had to be TP for 3 years, hell could even been a selling point at that time.

So theese 3 years have been something he needed to do to get the big bucks, so he maybe didn´t but his whole heart into it.

elf341
elf341
5
Joined: 10 Aug 2011, 19:31

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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NewtonMeter wrote: After 49 races of this, I've got no more fxcks left to give. Just as long as they don't do a BMW and quith their tails between their legs, I for one will still stick with them.
I agree with your sentiments. They've found themselves in a situation of disarray, panic, and unmet expectations. In a sense, the easy thing to do now would be to quit. If Mercedes are still determined to be in this sport long term, even in the face of poor performance, then I must take off my hat to them.

zyphro
zyphro
1
Joined: 02 May 2012, 16:33

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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sidmiester wrote:so gupdate says bigois is going to be ferrari's new aerodynamicist in the start of sept. ....
Oh dear ( :lol: ).

User avatar
Cam
45
Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 08:38

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Maybe the Concorde Agreement and their lack of a directors seat is playing a part in the 'scale down' as well as their obvious crap performance. Mercedes really are not winning in any area - on the track and in the boardroom.

I wouldn't even try for 2013 either, why bother - you can't polish a turd. Put full effort into 2014 now, give yourself 1.5 years while everyone else is focussed elsewhere, cut the fat from the crew, get a couple of fresh grads in engineering with freaky ideas, get a young GP2 hot shot to drive with someone who can actually develop the car and start to bring some excitement into the world.

Start playing the bad boy - ruffle a few feathers. Get some mongrel in ya!

Blow them all away in 2014.
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marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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the many heads thing is something akin to an OEM like approach...You got project managers who would be responsible for W01,02,03 and sub project leaders responsible for chassis ,powertrain and whole vehicle
And you have dedicated departments to look after cooling ,aerodynmics ,vehicle dynmaics ,calculation ,simulation etc
Considering the sheer size of an organisation like a formula 1 team it makes sense to get project and technology separated as you will have to assign workforce towards more future orientated projects and be able to use the best heads at the points of need as they arise and redistribute as necessary.
Still the fact remains that MGP again completely got it wrong in reading the season and having an idea what they were up to
considering their restructure and recruiting of recent ...the single plus remaining is they bagged podiums and actually performed as promised for this year -save the apalling reliability in Schumachers case.If that had not happened they ´d be in ok shape realistically..in touch with lotus ...and at least no worse than last year...but if is a long word in Formula 1.
RedBull showed what can be done transforming StewartGP-Jaguar into a double Championship winner .They not only hired the very best people but also heavily invested into technology ...and keep overspending AND stretching the rules be it RRA or technical regs.

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ReLax
0
Joined: 30 Jan 2012, 20:10
Location: Norderstedt

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Cam wrote:Maybe the Concorde Agreement and their lack of a directors seat is playing a part in the 'scale down' as well as their obvious crap performance. Mercedes really are not winning in any area - on the track and in the boardroom.

I wouldn't even try for 2013 either, why bother - you can't polish a turd. Put full effort into 2014 now, give yourself 1.5 years while everyone else is focussed elsewhere, cut the fat from the crew, get a couple of fresh grads in engineering with freaky ideas, get a young GP2 hot shot to drive with someone who can actually develop the car and start to bring some excitement into the world.

Start playing the bad boy - ruffle a few feathers. Get some mongrel in ya!

Blow them all away in 2014.
Thats some serious BS.
You can't skip 2013 for developement of 2014... that will bring zero.
The Problem of MAMG is, that they don't have a good basis with their cars at the moment. I mean, since the BGP01, the Car wasn't a real innovative thing. And now they should pull out an ace out of nowhere? This team should start thinking on building a damn good car, not by skipping year after year developement. They should use the W03 as a basic W04, and should think about how they could improve the car.
Skipping Car after car brought them to the 5th position in Contructor Championchip.


So, John Owen is going to be TD, guess he and Bob Bell change the positions with Bob Bell as new Chief-Aerodynamic engineer.

Raptor22
Raptor22
26
Joined: 07 Apr 2009, 22:48

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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marcush. wrote:the many heads thing is something akin to an OEM like approach...You got project managers who would be responsible for W01,02,03 and sub project leaders responsible for chassis ,powertrain and whole vehicle
And you have dedicated departments to look after cooling ,aerodynmics ,vehicle dynmaics ,calculation ,simulation etc
Considering the sheer size of an organisation like a formula 1 team it makes sense to get project and technology separated as you will have to assign workforce towards more future orientated projects and be able to use the best heads at the points of need as they arise and redistribute as necessary.
Still the fact remains that MGP again completely got it wrong in reading the season and having an idea what they were up to
considering their restructure and recruiting of recent ...the single plus remaining is they bagged podiums and actually performed as promised for this year -save the apalling reliability in Schumachers case.If that had not happened they ´d be in ok shape realistically..in touch with lotus ...and at least no worse than last year...but if is a long word in Formula 1.
RedBull showed what can be done transforming StewartGP-Jaguar into a double Championship winner .They not only hired the very best people but also heavily invested into technology ...and keep overspending AND stretching the rules be it RRA or technical regs.

I agree Marc, Mercedes are trying to implement a dynamic structure into a conservative corporate culture. It failed under Honda and its failing under Mercedes. Red Bull have the right approach. take the rules apart, isolate the ambiguity and exploit at multiple layers of execution. It works and I dig Red BUll's on the edge of the regs approach. Thats what winning is about; use the rules to help you not restrain you. Mercedes show flashes of this but it appears they are really poor attransfering technology into performance which could be indicative of too many ideas being abandoned due to conservative legal views on rule interpretation. That could be the biggest ball and chain.

Having more dynamic poeple in there to push the legal eagles back a bit could lower the dam wall and allow for technology to translate into performance