Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

[Adamski]

Here is my conspiracy theory what happened with this team in the last couple of months:

As we can see they can't keep up the speed in the race of development. That is the biggest problem this year, as they were very close to the front runners at the first few races. Because of the big reorganization there were lot of reliability problems, but now the team started work much smoother.

After the big Monaco upgrade, they are almost stopped upgrading the car's aerodynamic because Bigois was in gardening leave and there was no head of aerodynamics. There was a need of refreshing the aerodynamic group because it was not enough productive. Maybe the revised sidepod or even earlier upgrades was Bigois last attempt, but it doesn't produced enough results, so they are offering him a much lower position and of course he wouldn't liked it.

I think with this new guy, Mike Elliot they will produce a big upgrade package for the W03, but most of their resources now shifted to next years car. But I have a good feeling that we will see some interesting things on this years car. Maybe an updated exhaust or something radical. Why? Because Brawn and Rosberg already hinted they are trying everything to come up with something that will give them some speed.

Schumacher's new contract could be a good sign for next year:

If he will sign a new contract, that means he can see some good thing that is worth a try. If he leave the sport, it will be a good sign that this team will stays the same midfield runner. That is why his new contract still in question.

[sidmiester]

well i am no super technical expert like many people are here, so better off discussing here.

like gary says, and like so many people here predicted mercedes have problem like people have been saying and they have been taking lot of downforce at the front to balance at the rear to avoid tire problems.

and i am completely sold and agree when gary says , better off mercedes designing mclaren/ferrari/red bull style exhaust, and better off taking that DDRS... i think its useless, because after all they arent getting benefit in races anyway rather negative results because of it and they only need to bring DDRS like circuits like monza or maybe spa.

brawn probably got wrong when earlier in the very beginning of the season that mercedes were asked whether they would follow mclaren style exhaust and he ruled out saying he didnt see any benefit in that.

why not??? i mean every major team, even minor team is getting few tenths from exhaust, and like gary explains, taking off DDRS, reverting back cascades, developing new exhaust layout, modified diffuser and floor, definitely helps.. no question. people here have been saying that all long and i agree with them.
its looking pretty obvious... and wonder why mercedes the staffs didnt see any benefits.

DDRS is really overrated... plus i believe it has no huge benefit at all except qualifying, and rather hurting their tire performance.

anyway like to hear u guys thoughts on this....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19064856

[zyphro]

i think there is something really bizzarre going on....brawn stil in charge after all what happened already?
Could it be Schumacher was not drawn in by Brawn BUT Daimler them playing a loyality jeton on him for all they made possible for him and Brawn working against him all the time?
I just try to make sense out of all this mess it almost seems like there is two or three streams of interest within this team and really nobody apart from them drivers and perhaps Norby wants the team suceed ?

Strangely, I've found myself thinking this too recently. I just have this niggling feeling that Ross doesn't seem all that happy (well as happy as you'd think he should be) when MSC does well. It's something I have noticed in post race interviews with Ross. To me there seems to be something strange going on with that relationship.

I really like Ross in his Ferrari days and his Brawn year but I think he doesn't seem to have the fight in him any more. He just looks like he's lost interest to me.

I guess we'll never really know what's going on in the team and all the political relationship dynamics.

Lol, for someone that had a tear in his eye after Schumacher got pole at Monaco, don't you think that's a bit over the top?

[zyphro]

well i am no super technical expert like many people are here, so better off discussing here.

like gary says, and like so many people here predicted mercedes have problem like people have been saying and they have been taking lot of downforce at the front to balance at the rear to avoid tire problems.

and i am completely sold and agree when gary says , better off mercedes designing mclaren/ferrari/red bull style exhaust, and better off taking that DDRS... i think its useless, because after all they arent getting benefit in races anyway rather negative results because of it and they only need to bring DDRS like circuits like monza or maybe spa.

brawn probably got wrong when earlier in the very beginning of the season that mercedes were asked whether they would follow mclaren style exhaust and he ruled out saying he didnt see any benefit in that.

why not??? i mean every major team, even minor team is getting few tenths from exhaust, and like gary explains, taking off DDRS, reverting back cascades, developing new exhaust layout, modified diffuser and floor, definitely helps.. no question. people here have been saying that all long and i agree with them.
its looking pretty obvious... and wonder why mercedes the staffs didnt see any benefits.

DDRS is really overrated... plus i believe it has no huge benefit at all except qualifying, and rather hurting their tire performance.

anyway like to hear u guys thoughts on this....

I agree re. DDRS. It should only be used on tracks that are truly beneficial (i.e Monza and Spa).

Reverting back to cascades can only occur if they get more rear-df (i.e via exhausts). They took them off in the first place to help degredation and balance the downforce throughout the entire car (it was too weak at the rear).

[sidmiester]

well i am no super technical expert like many people are here, so better off discussing here.

like gary says, and like so many people here predicted mercedes have problem like people have been saying and they have been taking lot of downforce at the front to balance at the rear to avoid tire problems.

and i am completely sold and agree when gary says , better off mercedes designing mclaren/ferrari/red bull style exhaust, and better off taking that DDRS... i think its useless, because after all they arent getting benefit in races anyway rather negative results because of it and they only need to bring DDRS like circuits like monza or maybe spa.

brawn probably got wrong when earlier in the very beginning of the season that mercedes were asked whether they would follow mclaren style exhaust and he ruled out saying he didnt see any benefit in that.

why not??? i mean every major team, even minor team is getting few tenths from exhaust, and like gary explains, taking off DDRS, reverting back cascades, developing new exhaust layout, modified diffuser and floor, definitely helps.. no question. people here have been saying that all long and i agree with them.
its looking pretty obvious... and wonder why mercedes the staffs didnt see any benefits.

DDRS is really overrated... plus i believe it has no huge benefit at all except qualifying, and rather hurting their tire performance.

anyway like to hear u guys thoughts on this....

I agree re. DDRS. It should only be used on tracks that are truly beneficial (i.e Monza and Spa).

Reverting back to cascades can only occur if they get more rear-df (i.e via exhausts). They took them off in the first place to help degredation and balance the downforce throughout the entire car (it was too weak at the rear).

ye man.

so maybe they should revise the exhaust solution once again. like gary says mercedes current exhaust config is too conventional. other big teams have been exploiting as much downforce as they can.

think, lotus situation is different, who knows lotus could be even faster had they have mclaren style exhaust, but whatever the case is, i think they need to develop mclren style exhaust just to help rear, and revert the cascade back.
also i think they need to revise the diffuser, floor the rear wing also looks very conventional and nothing much as complex as the ones big team has been implementing.

[marcush.]

Good people bad people ,I don´t believe in this .Bigois must have something otherwise nobody would hire him or keep him.
He was good enough to head Prost ,Williams ,Honda ,BGP and now Mercedes for quite a while -if you have nothing on offer the wheel does not turn for very long.
Clearly he had enough of having more and more senior execs placed in front of his nose and preferred to leave....GARDENINGleave..that is ..full payment for not doing anything .Not being allowed to speak about your work with anybody.
I think all in all the whole situation offers no transparency and one cannot see direction...compare with Sauber ,Lotus or even Force India (at least in terms of developpining a car )
To me this all cries underlying complex interactions ...with Fry and Brawn still muddying the water draining the team of valuable energy .
Of course Brawn would have loved to be Mercedes next Neubauer ...but I think the man is intelligent enough to realise this is not going to happen at a fingersnap.
They all run out of time now Brawn.Haug,Schumacher,even rosberg and all the technical staff are currently burning their reputation and of course they are closer to a shutdown than they are prepared to believe.
Zetsche needs to cut cost to get reelected .BMW and audi are a lot more profitable then DAI. and as he needs the votes from the shareholders to get another round of fame ...he will cut off all ballast without thinking twice.
Additional money from DAI these days ? NO WAYS.

[Richard]

marcush, I agree.

Bigois has some responsibility for the team's performance due to his senior role, but the personal tone of some anti-Bigois comments are taking it too far.

[marcush.]

somehow he directed Honda towards what was going to be BrawnBGP001.Even if the machine was not even remtely a masterpiece per se .
They realised how to build a front wing and exploit the difusser rules for 2009 to be head and shoulders above all the others in the first half of 2009 .
And mind you ..Williams and Toyota had Double difussers as well in the first races when Brawn had to make do with some shoehorning a Mercedes engine into that Honda engine bay at the last hour.

[sidmiester]

somehow he directed Honda towards what was going to be BrawnBGP001.Even if the machine was not even remtely a masterpiece per se .
They realised how to build a front wing and exploit the difusser rules for 2009 to be head and shoulders above all the others in the first half of 2009 .
And mind you ..Williams and Toyota had Double difussers as well in the first races when Brawn had to make do with some shoehorning a Mercedes engine into that Honda engine bay at the last hour.

no body knows this... unless someone within the team is also writing in this thread

what remains true is that for the past 3 years mercedes has been undoubtedly weak in aero department and bigois was the senior guy. that says it all.

for past couple of months willis/costa/and now elliot has joined, so we will see whether bigois was the problem or the team is the problem...

time will tell..

[Raptor22]

Bigois has been around F1 a long time. Only at Honda did he really have the budget to produce something worthwhile.
If Ferrari are hiring him then he must still have very good stock in his abilities as an aerodynamisist. Ferrari tend to not hire plonkers...
Internal poitics may bedevil they technical capability but they are not fools.

I tend to agree that there's probably to much medling going on within Merc GP and funds are also probably a challenge.

[sidmiester]

Bigois has been around F1 a long time. Only at Honda did he really have the budget to produce something worthwhile.
If Ferrari are hiring him then he must still have very good stock in his abilities as an aerodynamisist. Ferrari tend to not hire plonkers...
Internal poitics may bedevil they technical capability but they are not fools.

I tend to agree that there's probably to much medling going on within Merc GP and funds are also probably a challenge.

lets hope bigois can do well at ferrari so that mercedes operation can be judged upon. i also agree that something is going on within the board and the technical team. besides bigois will work under tombazis so i dont think he will have problems at ferrari

Mercedes main reason to buy brawn was so that they can spend less money than they have been at mclaren and still be competitive .

but feels, as if lotus have less workforce and possibly less budget than mercedes and yet they are doing well, means, i think mercedes still have better resources more workforce and yet result is not there.

either ross is the problem in how he organizes or green light things or our design/aero/R&D the whole technical team is the problem. ....

we will have to wait and see how mercedes does next year, and how they react under pressure or what kind of progress they make with new technical delegates.

atm i think much of a current season is a mess.

its strange of ross brawn when he said few months ago that tyre focus is more important than development. probably first time i have heard. or has he done somthing like that before?

its really strange, how the team makes same fundamental error for both w01 and w02 with short wheelbase, how team finds so hard to understand the concept and how blown diffuser works, lack of aero development. and so on. and now team is way too focused in tires and less in development of car. takes out front wing.. no exhaust changes.... we dont even see development changes in sensitive areas where they could improve like front wings, rear wing, floor, diffuser, exhaust, undercuts, sidepots, and other mechanical areas...

ross is top man who looks all the operation... i just have no idea who is to blame????

[marcush.]

team principal is Ross brawn he has sold the mess to Daimler .The team did not deliver on anything yet and has not surprised in a positive way -overachieving -from what would be expected .It was always elaborate explanations why this or that did not pan out as intended.
I might be wrong ,but after paying a considerable sum year after year and paying upfront a even more considerable sum i would start to ask myself if this is really the deal I thought i have made...even though it´s not my own money that goes the drain..i´d be worried a tiny bit about the worlds perception of all this....ok it may help to have schumacher -not even him is enough to guarantee success ..but then again .they bought what they thoought was a championship contender not an also ran.....and still they are exactly that ...the also rans with the best drivers and biggest budget not delivering a challenge to the championship.

[zyphro]

Looks like Merc are recruiting in R&D: http://www.autosport-atlas.com/dir_appo ... intid=3250

Ideally the candidate will have a well-proven track record of working in an R&D lab environment

No Tom, Dick or Harry then .

[Morteza]

Looks like Merc are recruiting in R&D: http://www.autosport-atlas.com/dir_appo ... intid=3250

Ideally the candidate will have a well-proven track record of working in an R&D lab environment

No Tom, Dick or Harry then .

So they are still restructuring. It seems they were trying their chances with the old staff (what sane mind would do such a thing with the history of this team? ) When will things get stable in this team?

[NewtonMeter]

the also rans with the best drivers and biggest budget not delivering a challenge to the championship.

Did I miss something, or a you using hyperbole?