Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

[marcush.]

Daimler bought the whole lot as a bonafide championship contender.don´t forget Brawn was hired 3 years (?) before to restructure the Honda house...and trimmed down the outfit for a slim ans lean f1 contender selling the lot to Norby and zetsche.
How on earth could you justify to come up with a restructuring plan on that base? it is a complete declaration of failure of your first restructure and efficiency programme,don´t you think so?
Other teams have gone absolutely seemless through engine supplier change and Brawn needs what is in effect 6 years still circulating around the same issues as they always forwarded: tyre use....
Brawn came up with the idea that you might come up with the left tyres running too cold and the right tyres too hot causing them to be at a loss to find a proper setup... =D> =D> =D> It´s all useless crap he is airing if they really knew that little about vehicle setup then why bother investing in complicated software or the like....it just does not add up
Maybe they just get that consistant overload in terms of information and lose perception on what is important stuff and what is just a bit of noise without influence on performance-

[Pierce89]

I've been quiet on this front as of late, but the conversation has gotten too juicy to resist. I see the AMG rebranding as a sort of "look, it wasn't the whole of Mercedes Benz failing in F1, it was just little ol' AMG". I do think Norby should be banned from any F1 involvement on the team side, he can play at MBHPE( can't call it Ilmore anymore, because Mario Illien left and restarted Ilmore). I don't see this as a way of just letting Brawn "get on with it", because I think the Daimler board has lost faith in him.

I think Merc is trying to limit negative exposure until they can get the team performing or until they can hock it for half price.

[marcush.]

do´t get me wrong on this ,i certainly don´t believe Daimler could do it any better on their own ...but I have the impression
the whole deal was made up to make a few guys rich and over that they forgot what it takes to be champions if they ever really knew .
If adding people and increase the head heavyness of the whole lot made things easier is also questionable.Maybe a lot of things were simply forced on them along the linesof -What about costa ,the guy who was leading Ferrari in recent years after Byrnes retirement -didn´t his cars win championships...? Do you think he is of any worth? Yeah he is a cpable guy .soo why not hire him? ..same with Bell and Willis -it does not take much imagination to see how that deal came along when Willis negotiated the use of the obsolete Tunnel for HRT ...and possibly an allocation of molds for obsolete MK1 front wing flaps and endplates of Brawn BGP1 origin..

[zyphro]

I've been quiet on this front as of late, but the conversation has gotten too juicy to resist. I see the AMG rebranding as a sort of "look, it wasn't the whole of Mercedes Benz failing in F1, it was just little ol' AMG". I do think Norby should be banned from any F1 involvement on the team side, he can play at MBHPE( can't call it Ilmore anymore, because Mario Illien left and restarted Ilmore). I don't see this as a way of just letting Brawn "get on with it", because I think the Daimler board has lost faith in him.

I think Merc is trying to limit negative exposure until they can get the team performing or until they can hock it for half price.

You do realise AMG is wholly owned & a subsidiary of Daimler AG? What you wrote has no logic behind it.

AMG = Mercedes-AMG GmbH

And " little ol' AMG"? Haha, I think you should read more into what AMG is and does before making any further posts on this topic; you seem clueless. If the Brackley team continually produce crap boxes under the branding AMG, this will turn nasty

There could be some truth behind this story, however, the reasons listed do not seem to hold any real credence.

[marcush.]

DAI is looking for an opportunity to get rid of this ,that´s my impression.They realised in 2009 they were fooled and opened the wallet to correct this .Obviously all the money could not eleviate the wrongs -so even more money has to be spent..the three years plan is coming to an end this season as well...nobody decides on the next three or whatever years just on the back of half a season running good or bad ...the question is morelike:
What did Brawn and Norby achieve of the goals outlined for these three years?
Answer yourself
What was the impact of recruiting Bell as TD?
What was the effect of hiring prince Willis and Prince Costa?
Who is Elliott Ness?

If I had spent that sum buying the current title holder and invested into right everything demanded by the team without asking much in three years .With two of the finest drivers avvailable in the world and counting the pluses in this balance
finding out about a handful of podiums and 1 win in three years with occasional glimpses of strength ,I would ask myself if i have hired the right gang to do the job...Don´t you think so?

[Ferraripilot]

Come now Marcush, Daimler purchased a very dressed-down skeleton team from Brawn in 2009, it would take a miracle to make such a team a WCC contender in 3 years and I'm sure they had high expectations but certainly foresaw potential bumps in the road. I say again, Red Bull took 6 years and multiple reorganizations and staff changes to yield results.

I work in corporate America mainly doing legal defense work, and when a particular department is not performing as required it is reorganized until it does perform as required. The fact that Mercedes as a board have the foresight to reorganize now rather than at say the 4-5 year mark shows they are being proactive in developing the team rather than beating their collective heads against the wall year after year with the same management paradigm.

What Merc are doing is a comfort not all teams have the pleasure of doing.

[bhall]

What flavor Kool-Aid are you drinkin'? Mercedes AMG Petronas is nothing more - and, to be fair, nothing less - than the latest iteration of the failed experiment that is "the Brackley-based F1 team."

They have a lead driver with seven World Championships to his credit, and he's lucky these days to finish a race. Their team principal has been at the technical helm of nine Driver's and eight Constructor's Championship-winning campaigns. But, between him and two other Technical Directors, who have an additional four Constructor's crowns and three Driver's crowns on their CVs, the've gone nowhere over the last three years. (It took Ferrari three races to sort out the demon-dog F2012.)

There's enough gold on that team to put out a rap album. Yet, Pastor Maldonado equals them in wins.

I'm convinced the factory is haunted by ghosts and goblins and rotund salesmen.

[zyphro]

I'm convinced the factory is haunted by ghosts and goblins and rotund salesmen.

I concur; the Brackley outfit seems cursed and doomed to fail.

[Ferraripilot]

What flavor Kool-Aid are you drinkin'? Mercedes AMG Petronas is nothing more - and, to be fair, nothing less - than the latest iteration of the failed experiment that is "the Brackley-based F1 team."

They have a lead driver with seven World Championships to his credit, and he's lucky these days to finish a race. Their team principal has been at the technical helm of nine Driver's and eight Constructor's Championship-winning campaigns. But, between him and two other Technical Directors, who have an additional four Constructor's crowns and three Driver's crowns on their CVs, the've gone nowhere over the last three years. (It took Ferrari three races to sort out the demon-dog F2012.)

There's enough gold on that team to put out a rap album. Yet, Pastor Maldonado equals them in wins.

I'm convinced the factory is haunted by ghosts and goblins and rotund salesmen.

So, Brackley is a cursed town? 2009 was their moment in the sun and that's all there is to it? I don't buy it. Newey had several dodgy cars until his string of winners came about. Ferrari had years of bone-headed machines until Brawn cleaned them up and the team was restructured in general. I see this as no different. Corporate shake-ups are just what's needed here. If one method isn't working they need to alter their paradigm until they find one that works. It's business 101 IMO.

[marcush.]

let´s give them a few days ...it does not matter anyways ,anymore.Spa and Monza and singapore should give us a the true picture -is this already hstory or are they willing to fight for making history..
unfortunatelly what I want to happen is not important and I regret to have that feeling we will hear more excuses and explanations than having reason to cheer over Silverware and famous turnarounds ...itßs actually a sad story really ,a missed opportunity and an epic fail.

[bhall]

You do realise AMG is wholly owned & a subsidiary of Daimler AG? What you wrote has no logic behind it.

AMG = Mercedes-AMG GmbH

[...]

John Q. Public, however, may not be aware there's no distinction, because this whole thing is just a shell-game of perception.

Mercedes AMG Petronas is as related to Daimler AG as any advertising firm hired to produce a Mercedes-Benz commercial, which is to say, not very. The Mercedes F1 team is but a PR budget allocation to Daimler AG and nothing more; it has no bearing whatsoever on the quality of M-B road cars. But, here we are endlessly denigrating the name Mercedes because the budget allocation which wears that name is making a mockery of it.

Perception is very powerful.

So, Brackley is a cursed town? 2009 was their moment in the sun and that's all there is to it? I don't buy it. Newey had several dodgy cars until his string of winners came about. Ferrari had years of bone-headed machines until Brawn cleaned them up and the team was restructured in general. I see this as no different. Corporate shake-ups are just what's needed here. If one method isn't working they need to alter their paradigm until they find one that works. It's business 101 IMO.

Tyrrell, BAR, Honda, Brawn, and now Mercedes. How many more corporate shake-ups can this team handle?

History 101 is important, too.

[zyphro]

You do realise AMG is wholly owned & a subsidiary of Daimler AG? What you wrote has no logic behind it.

AMG = Mercedes-AMG GmbH

[...]

John Q. Public, however, may not be aware there's no distinction, because this whole thing is just a shell-game of perception.

Mercedes AMG Petronas is as related to Daimler AG as any advertising firm hired to produce a Mercedes-Benz commercial, which is to say, not very. The Mercedes F1 team is but a PR budget allocation to Daimler AG and nothing more; it has no bearing whatsoever on the quality of M-B road cars. But, here we are endlessly denigrating the name Mercedes because the budget allocation which wears that name is making a mockery of it.

Perception is very powerful.

I never said it had any "bearing whatsoever on the quality of M-B road cars".

But, here we are endlessly denigrating the name Mercedes because the budget allocation which wears that name is making a mockery of it.

Which proves my earlier point; AMG or not, it is still Mercedes.

[bhall]

I'll put it this way: that there's any confusion whatsoever about who or what we're talking about here, or even why we're talking about it, is exactly the reason why Daimler AG has to be proactive about protecting its brands. Marketing is all about perception and connotation. Daimler AG can ill afford any possibility that, right or wrong, "Mercedes" becomes synonymous with "poor performance" in any context.

For what it's worth, this is the same thing as Pirelli's constant equivocations about its F1 tires earlier this year. Of course, their F1 tires have nothing to do with those they offer to average customers, and we - the educated fools we are - understand that. But, not everyone is as well-informed.

Image is everything in retail.

[Richard]

bhallg2k - I agree. Aligning the F1 team with their premium sports brand is not the action of someone wanting to distance themselves from F1. After all, the typical AMG customer is more likely to aware of F1 than the general Merc customer.

[marcush.]

not much to write home about these days for the marketing guys-apart from the BIG question IF Schumi is signing his new contract....
I very much underwrite the team is a marketing only affair and someone in Mercedes had the idea this would make commercially a lot of sense as it would write a new chapter of silver arrows .
I ask myself if anyone had the posssibility of failure to achieve the results neeeded to write history ...so for the three years going it was a constant loss of credibility and after a shortlived high in China and Monaco it has turned into the usual crap again not a dream for a Media guy ...no matter how many or few millions they have to spend ..at this time it´s not worth much if anything.Mercedes AMG needs to fight for wins in every race not just once or twice a year.And I think that was already on the agenda in Year 1 and it was on this years agenda as well after the original plan was binned at the end of 2010 -the beginning of 2011 when Beell arrived.
Missing the podium entirely last year does not reduce the expectations for this year