BAR went down the pan due to management in my opinion. They had a massive budget; but it appeared they had no idea how to use it effectively.marcush. wrote:They came in with a lot of money but they certainly started out way better than Toyota did for example with good qualy pace and developped into a serious contender over the next years
And at some point they genuinly were constantly at the front in 2006 .
They seriously lost the plot afterwards that´s true.
We know that building a race winner car is a long work but what annoys everybody is the lack of improvements through the season, the incapacity of solving the same problem(tyre management) since 2010 and the lack of reliability(this team has more mechanical/technical problems than HRT!!).kooleracer wrote:People dont understand that Mercedes is a topteam because of the name. Mercedes should receive the same treament Red Bull when the started there project. Mercedes is trying to build a car they can be used as a baseline for the coming seasons. Newey uses the RB5-6 as basline the design a car to comply with the rules of that particular season. Mercedes started with the W01 the car had some design flaws. The W02 is hole new design concept longer wheelbase etc. The W03 is the first evolution of the W02. I was quite surprised at the beginning of the year how the team made such a big step forward with the W03. Quali pace was really good. But the W03 also had it design flaw, the tire deg and understanding the car to unlock its full potential. Brawn would not use the word "potential' if the number from the wind tunnels and CFD where poor to. If Mercedes can sort this car out with the comming upgrades. The W04 should be a front-runner. And to produce a race winning car in 3 year time, is a achievement that we as fans of this team could appreciate a little more I think. Because MGP is not spending crazy money like Ferrari, Mclaren and Red Bull. I only hope that MSC can profite from his work and is still in F1 next year. Because Nico could be a contender next year. The 2nd evolution of the W02 is going to be a great car. Willis,Bell,Brawn, Costa and Mike Elliot onboard. The knowledge and know-how is defenitly there, now its only about applying it good in to next car. Costa and Willis are also now involved form the beginning of building the W04. I am really positive about this team, because the are on the right road. There 3 car build is a race winning car, Red bull got there eventually with there 5th car. So please dont be so hard on this team. Never forget that when Mercedes took over, Brawn GP the previous incarnations of this team. Never won a race in 10! years,BAR-Honda and Honda Racing never won a single race. So there is no foundation where brawn could build upon. Another difference is that Red bull had the luxury of testing on a real track for hours, to develop there car.
But you should know that MercedesGP doenst have the staff, to do that through the season. MercedesGP are asked to fight for the championship with means that simply arent there or arent good enough. Mercedes just built a new sim, that was finished early 2012. Every top-team already have a sim thats top-notch, mercedes just got on. Thats one example. So the expectations form fans and media and from corporate are simply to high at the moment. Give the a couple season so sort everything out, and i think MercedesGP could dominate like Ferarri did a few years back. Because the W03 was is big improvement from the W02. The W03 was quicker than the new Red bull in Qualy in the beginning of the season. If they can achieve that in the winter break then those men and women at MGP are surely capable. With the right means they surely can build a championship winning car, thats good throughout the whole season. MercedesGP is now in the proces of building the team back-up, while teams like Mclaren,Ferrari and Red bull are in the process of downsizing.Vasconia wrote:We know that building a race winner car is a long work but what annoys everybody is the lack of improvements through the season, the incapacity of solving the same problem(tyre management) since 2010 and the lack of reliability(this team has more mechanical/technical problems than HRT!!).kooleracer wrote:People dont understand that Mercedes is a topteam because of the name. Mercedes should receive the same treament Red Bull when the started there project. Mercedes is trying to build a car they can be used as a baseline for the coming seasons. Newey uses the RB5-6 as basline the design a car to comply with the rules of that particular season. Mercedes started with the W01 the car had some design flaws. The W02 is hole new design concept longer wheelbase etc. The W03 is the first evolution of the W02. I was quite surprised at the beginning of the year how the team made such a big step forward with the W03. Quali pace was really good. But the W03 also had it design flaw, the tire deg and understanding the car to unlock its full potential. Brawn would not use the word "potential' if the number from the wind tunnels and CFD where poor to. If Mercedes can sort this car out with the comming upgrades. The W04 should be a front-runner. And to produce a race winning car in 3 year time, is a achievement that we as fans of this team could appreciate a little more I think. Because MGP is not spending crazy money like Ferrari, Mclaren and Red Bull. I only hope that MSC can profite from his work and is still in F1 next year. Because Nico could be a contender next year. The 2nd evolution of the W02 is going to be a great car. Willis,Bell,Brawn, Costa and Mike Elliot onboard. The knowledge and know-how is defenitly there, now its only about applying it good in to next car. Costa and Willis are also now involved form the beginning of building the W04. I am really positive about this team, because the are on the right road. There 3 car build is a race winning car, Red bull got there eventually with there 5th car. So please dont be so hard on this team. Never forget that when Mercedes took over, Brawn GP the previous incarnations of this team. Never won a race in 10! years,BAR-Honda and Honda Racing never won a single race. So there is no foundation where brawn could build upon. Another difference is that Red bull had the luxury of testing on a real track for hours, to develop there car.
Perhaps a learnt behaviour? It worked for them in 2009.Dragonfly wrote:I got the impression that again they tried to find a magic silver bullet in their DDRS and all passive duct systems, throwing much resources into it instead of looking for improvement in a more conventional way. Three years in a row they seem to try to find some miraculous radical innovation which would replicate the BGP 001 dominance as opposed to the more systematic approach by the other teams.
Source? All I saw online was a rumor today that Hamilton was going to Merc, which was in turn denied by Hamilton's people, who said he was still in negotiations with McLaren, and Mercedes, who said they wouldn't know about their 2013 driver's lineup until Schumacher made his decision.Mestrades wrote:I can confirm that Michael will retire at the end of the season! So, Jordan rumors are totally true. Michael has said that he wants to concentrate for the next races until the end of the season where he wants to win one of the rest 8 races. He thinks that Singapore will be his better chance and with a good result, he will feel better to do the announce. What a pity!
The source is mine! (Remember that I was the first men to obtain the first photos of the 2012 car). I have my contacts in the team and probably Eddie has heard the same that the people of the team have said to me. 95% sure that Michael will retire.Cocles wrote:Source? All I saw online was a rumor today that Hamilton was going to Merc, which was in turn denied by Hamilton's people, who said he was still in negotiations with McLaren, and Mercedes, who said they wouldn't know about their 2013 driver's lineup until Schumacher made his decision.Mestrades wrote:I can confirm that Michael will retire at the end of the season! So, Jordan rumors are totally true. Michael has said that he wants to concentrate for the next races until the end of the season where he wants to win one of the rest 8 races. He thinks that Singapore will be his better chance and with a good result, he will feel better to do the announce. What a pity!
The source of the rumor is supposedly Eddie Jordan.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/se ... die-jordan
I bet you do.Mestrades wrote:I have my contacts in the team...
I agree.elf341 wrote:I think a rather more likely version of reality is that Schumacher has intimated that having an excellent race in Singapore will be the crux of whether he will continue or not - with a win almost certainly sealing positive, and a sub-P5 performance probably meaning withdrawal. Mercedes have announced what one might imagine is a C-spec car for Singapore, so this seems the most logical point in time for a critical decision - which coincidentally is pretty much October, when MSC said he would announce.
