Formula Nippon cars vs F1 cars?

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
User avatar
Paul
11
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 19:33

Re: Formula Nippon cars vs F1 cars?

Post

Probably the toughest aspect to match an F1 car in on a budget would be safety, everything else is fairly easy. Just an implementation of "more is better" philosophy: bigger engine, bigger brakes, bigger wheels, bigger diffuser, bigger wings, some active aero... It is only hard to build a fast F1 car while abiding F1 rules.

superdread
superdread
16
Joined: 25 Jul 2012, 22:04

Re: Formula Nippon cars vs F1 cars?

Post

Paul wrote:Probably the toughest aspect to match an F1 car in on a budget would be safety, everything else is fairly easy. Just an implementation of "more is better" philosophy: bigger engine, bigger brakes, bigger wheels, bigger diffuser, bigger wings, some active aero... It is only hard to build a fast F1 car while abiding F1 rules.
Not really, because you must match the F1 cars on weight as well, and with the current level of aerodynamic sophistication in F1 it will be hard to get near the aerodynamic efficiency.

The engine doesn't need only to be more powerful, but while getting some reliability, fuel efficiency and not weigh that much more.
Brake technology is not limiting, they are made by intend just as strong as the tires can handle them.
Making the tires much larger creates their drag and that is rather counterproductive, making the tire side wall lower would need suspension with substantially more travel and more tire deformation losses per surface area.
Aerodynamic limitations are the approach to gain some cheap advantages on F1: vehicle wide, multi element wings (front and rear), venturi tunnels along the floor. This must be balanced, so that it still looks similar to a formula race car.
bigpat wrote: The cars are sprung within a certain and quite small range, and the dampers are the same. The bump rebound curves aren't hugely different with springs within a 100 lbs-200lbs range, and are within the adjustment system of most dampers ( if adjustable) especially with the little movement they have. The rest is by ride height, toe, camber, roll bars and perhaps slight geometry changes. Once you find a sweet spot or window for a car, you try to operate within that. Nearly every circuit car, regardless of category is the same...
Ok, the changes in suspension are more in order to improve general performance and not to adapt a car to a certain track.
I still think that a lot of care goes in the setup of a F1 car (simulations oh behaviour at different fuel loads, ...), but that is manageable by a rather small team (Sauber gets along with about 30 people at the track).

cossie
cossie
-12
Joined: 24 Aug 2007, 17:32

Re: Formula Nippon cars vs F1 cars?

Post

ANd you wounder why Indy cars sucks now a days, 2011 race qualify FN VS IRL @Twin Ring Motegi Road course, same course and distance layout, FN was a FULL 3 Seconds Faster :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

IRL

Scott Dixon

9

01:39.8282

9

107.573

14

--.----

--.----



Helio Castroneves

3

01:39.8435

10

107.556

14

0.0153

0.0153



Dario Franchitti

10

01:39.8875

7

107.509

13

0.0593

0.0440



James Jakes

18

01:40.0611

6

107.322

11

0.2329

0.1736



Sebastien Bourdais

19

01:40.0814

4

107.301

15

0.2532

0.0203



Ryan Briscoe

6

01:40.1355

4

107.243

14

0.3073

0.0541



Charlie Kimball

83

01:40.1877

13

107.187

13

0.3595

0.0522



Ryan Hunter-Reay

28

01:40.2126
Forumula Nippon

Information

Entry List

Free Practice 1

Qualifying

Free Practice 2

Race

Review

Photo Gallery


2011 Formula NIPPON



Qualyfying
Race

: 2011-08-06 sat
: 2011-08-07 sun
Twin Ring Motegi:4.801 km
Race : 52 Laps [249.652 km]
.
Qualifying

Qualifying
2011-08-06 Weather: Fine | Course: Dry
1

Joao Paulo Lima de Oliveira

TEAM IMPUL
TOYOTA RV8K

1'36.471

1'36.113

1'35.012



2

36

Andre Lotterer

PETRONAS TEAM TOM’S
TOYOTA RV8K

1'35.997

1'35.496

1'35.189



3

41

Koudai Tsukakoshi

DOCOMO TEAM DANDELION RACING
HONDA HR10E

1'35.921

1'36.178

1'35.489



4

37

Kazuki Nakajima

PETRONAS TEAM TOM’S
TOYOTA RV8K

1'36.300

1'36.065

1'35.841



5

40

Takuya Izawa

DOCOMO TEAM DANDELION RACING
HONDA HR10E

1'36.487

1'36.536

1'35.943



6

7

Kazuya Oshima

Team LeMans
TOYOTA RV8K

1'36.476

1'36.441

1'36.041



7

16

Naoki Yamamoto

TEAM 無限
HONDA HR10E

1'36.650

1'36.427

1'36.044



8

2

Kohei Hirate

TEAM IMPUL
TOYOTA RV8K

1'36.013

1'36.448

1'36.375

gixxer_drew
gixxer_drew
29
Joined: 31 Jul 2010, 18:17
Location: Yokohama, Japan

Re: Formula Nippon cars vs F1 cars?

Post

Those are two pretty different tires though.

BoomBoom
BoomBoom
3
Joined: 12 Jul 2012, 16:13

Re: Formula Nippon cars vs F1 cars?

Post

Formula Nippon as fast as F1 backmarkers at Suzuka

http://www.auto123.com/en/racing-news/f ... tid=136398

User avatar
Pierce89
60
Joined: 21 Oct 2009, 18:38

Re: Formula Nippon cars vs F1 cars?

Post

cossie wrote:ANd you wounder why Indy cars sucks now a days, 2011 race qualify FN VS IRL @Twin Ring Motegi Road course, same course and distance layout, FN was a FULL 3 Seconds Faster :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

IRL

Scott Dixon

9

01:39.8282

9

107.573

14

--.----

--.----



Helio Castroneves

3

01:39.8435

10

107.556

14

0.0153

0.0153



Dario Franchitti

10

01:39.8875

7

107.509

13

0.0593

0.0440



James Jakes

18

01:40.0611

6

107.322

11

0.2329

0.1736



Sebastien Bourdais

19

01:40.0814

4

107.301

15

0.2532

0.0203



Ryan Briscoe

6

01:40.1355

4

107.243

14

0.3073

0.0541



Charlie Kimball

83

01:40.1877

13

107.187

13

0.3595

0.0522



Ryan Hunter-Reay

28

01:40.2126
Forumula Nippon

Information

Entry List

Free Practice 1

Qualifying

Free Practice 2

Race

Review

Photo Gallery


2011 Formula NIPPON



Qualyfying
Race

: 2011-08-06 sat
: 2011-08-07 sun
Twin Ring Motegi:4.801 km
Race : 52 Laps [249.652 km]
.
Qualifying

Qualifying
2011-08-06 Weather: Fine | Course: Dry
1

Joao Paulo Lima de Oliveira

TEAM IMPUL
TOYOTA RV8K

1'36.471

1'36.113

1'35.012



2

36

Andre Lotterer

PETRONAS TEAM TOM’S
TOYOTA RV8K

1'35.997

1'35.496

1'35.189



3

41

Koudai Tsukakoshi

DOCOMO TEAM DANDELION RACING
HONDA HR10E

1'35.921

1'36.178

1'35.489



4

37

Kazuki Nakajima

PETRONAS TEAM TOM’S
TOYOTA RV8K

1'36.300

1'36.065

1'35.841



5

40

Takuya Izawa

DOCOMO TEAM DANDELION RACING
HONDA HR10E

1'36.487

1'36.536

1'35.943



6

7

Kazuya Oshima

Team LeMans
TOYOTA RV8K

1'36.476

1'36.441

1'36.041



7

16

Naoki Yamamoto

TEAM 無限
HONDA HR10E

1'36.650

1'36.427

1'36.044



8

2

Kohei Hirate

TEAM IMPUL
TOYOTA RV8K

1'36.013

1'36.448

1'36.375
IMHO 3 seconds faster than a car built for ovals ain't that impressive.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

Gatecrasher
Gatecrasher
4
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 04:54

Re: Formula Nippon cars vs F1 cars?

Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXA7Scn7tbg

Light entertainment on how other cars compare :mrgreen:

Cold Fussion
Cold Fussion
93
Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 04:51

Re: Formula Nippon cars vs F1 cars?

Post

Gatecrasher wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXA7Scn7tbg

Light entertainment on how other cars compare :mrgreen:
Oh how I miss the old Silverstone. They do this competition every year at the race in Melbourne, and every year you get sandbagging so someone can win on sunday.