Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Vasconia
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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marcush. wrote:if all was that easy ,why making a big fuzz of it ? Schumacher is waiting for something -when obviously Brawn ,the hutt and zetsche desperately wanted to get it sealed and done as early as Monaco .
So why would Schumacher on one hand push away any decision till october but on the other hand hint at his value for a brand and his confidence to be good for another championship title..
If he wanted to just to carry on and things were developing as intended -if he had faith in MGP to turn the corner being on full song 2013 i´d think he would not have even bothered to leave us in a state of uncertainty.

I even go one step further:Schumacher has told the team to leave if targets are not met till october...this would perfectly explain why MGP is in contact with Hamilton who must be considered as the single available prospect representing Schumachers calibre at least in terms of speed .
Let´s face it :A Rosberg/Sutil Rosberg Hülk or Rosberg diResta Combo is just to weak in terms of marketing strength to be sold to the board....

So Hamilton has taken up the ball and is playing it to test Mclarens urge to retain him .Schumacher is putting pressure on MGP to deliver(upgrades + reliability) ..mind you ..he was in France to check the progress of the team (!!) .
Mclaren has started negotiations with the hot property perez to show Hamsy..we got alternatives and we won´t pay a shilling more for your services...

So ...the question is : can MERC convince Michael they are a championship team now and where may he end if Michael decides -no ,I have had enough of hollow announcements.. For me all teams would love to get hold of him ...as he is the biggest value outside of the car +he is as good as anyone in the top ten if you look at it conservatively.
100% agree. If the car is not fast in Singapur and Japan, say goodbye to Michael. So Iam excited/nervous with these two races, I dont want to see Michael retairing again because he still can do big things in F1 as he has showed this season.

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Steven
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Guys,
- Please cut down on the nicknames will you? I fail to see how that adds anything to any post...
- Also please post Schumacher / Hamilton contract stuff to the silly season when appropriate.

Thanks

bhall
bhall
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Sincerely, I think if you dive even an inch or two past the surface - that "cartoonish" edifice - you'll see a very balanced discussion taking place, especially given the subject matter. This team is currently a joke, so it's only natural to laugh.

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FoxHound
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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bhallg2k wrote:Sincerely, I think if you dive even an inch or two past the surface - that "cartoonish" edifice - you'll see a very balanced discussion taking place, especially given the subject matter. This team is currently a joke, so it's only natural to laugh.
Okay, so you feel the team is a joke and worthy of a few jokes. Everyone can have a laugh at certain teams now and again, but can you in bullet point form, sans pseudonyms, why they are laughable?
JET set

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SeijaKessen
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bhallg2k wrote:F1 is a game, and talking about it with a stick up one's ass defeats the whole purpose. Of course, that's merely my (admittedly not so humble) opinion.
This is quite the rational approach, and I find it to be quite accurate.

When everyone has a stick up their ass, it tends to make the entire thing not enjoyable. It also discourages participation by anyone.

On a more interesting note, has anyone figured out where MGP would be coming up with a $100 million for Lewis Hamilton? Assuming the rumors are true anyhow, I can't help but question what is in the water supply at Brackley. Aren't there technical ideas that could be brought to life with that money...?

bhall
bhall
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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FoxHound wrote:Okay, so you feel the team is a joke and worthy of a few jokes. Everyone can have a laugh at certain teams now and again, but can you in bullet point form, sans pseudonyms, why they are laughable?
Although this has been covered extensively, I'd be delighted. (But, I don't do so well with bullet points.)
SeijaKessen wrote:[...]
"Mercedes team principal Ross Brawn told AUTOSPORT that the outfit had perhaps neglected car development too much recently."

[...]
Ross Brawn wrote:We suffer from mid-corner understeer and we can't dial out that understeer because we then have [corner] entrance and exit issues. But it's almost a classic racing car problem because when you reach the limit of the car it behaves in a certain way. The range of balance in the car is probably too great at the moment and that could be improved by the aerodynamic or mechanical side and we are working on both aspects to improve the car.
Three technical directors created a car which they've not properly developed and cannot be balanced. That's laughable, especially when one considers the money spent to do it. The W03 is the third Mercedes F1 effort to be so fundamentally flawed.

Norbert Haug, a journalist, readily persuaded Mercedes to purchase a team that, throughout most of its existence, underperformed annually. Its only success was either a million years ago (the beginning of the Tyrrell era), the result of attrition and rain (Honda: Hungary, 2006), or the inevitable probability that one team would initially pick most of the low-lying fruit that grows from a massive regulation shift (Brawn, 2009), and even then, that team fell heavy, like a hammer through a room, once in-season development became a factor. In other words, Haug constructed a narrative that somehow convinced Dr. Dieter Zetsche to unload hundreds of millions to fill an automotive and competitive black hole. I think that's hysterical.

Now the most self-destructive team in F1 is rumored to be pursuing one of the most self-destructive drivers in F1. While that's obviously little more than a rumor at this point, given everything else, it doesn't seem so silly to imagine such a confounding move actually happening. (Full disclosure: I've said many times that a Hamilton-to-Mercedes move could make a ----ton of sense if it works. But, it's extremely high risk no matter how you cut it.)

Just imagining the infighting that could occur under such a scenario prompts my side to spontaneously split in preparation for the inevitable Vesuvius of humor that will erupt.

These things are to be expected from teams further down the grid. But, the Silver Arrow? Germans are notorious for precision, but I'm not quite so sure anyone at Mercedes AMG Petronas could precisely direct me to a toilet.

High comedy, my friend. All of it.
Last edited by bhall on 17 Sep 2012, 21:03, edited 1 time in total.

zyphro
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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bhallg2k wrote:
Now the most self-destructive team in F1 is rumored to be pursuing one of the most self-destructive drivers in F1.
A match made in heaven, or hell depending on which way you look at it :lol: .

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SeijaKessen
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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bhallg2k wrote: These things are to be expected from teams further down the grid. But, the Silver Arrow? Germans are notorious for precision, but I'm not quite so sure anyone at Mercedes AMG Petronas could precisely direct me to a toilet.
It was once proven years ago, that one should never send an Italian car to England for design.

Were MGP an actual German team instead of a British outfit parading under the German colors, the team might have a chance for success.

I think I can hear the snickers coming out of Ingolstadt with each passing day.

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turbof1
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bhallg2k, I think you are kind of overreacting on this one. Agreed: Mercedes just hasn't made enough of itself being a works team, but it is slowly getting back there. They showed at the Magny Cour circuit that they are serious, and the car in its base is a very decent car. Yes they made the horrible decision to focus all the resources on tyre performance instead of car development and have screwed their chance at the title (they could have been in that race if they kept developing the car!). So what? Just look at BAR Honda, Toyota and even BMW: those teams did far worse then Mercedes did this season. They'll get better, you can be sure of that.
SeijaKessen wrote:
bhallg2k wrote: These things are to be expected from teams further down the grid. But, the Silver Arrow? Germans are notorious for precision, but I'm not quite so sure anyone at Mercedes AMG Petronas could precisely direct me to a toilet.
It was once proven years ago, that one should never send an Italian car to England for design.

Were MGP an actual German team instead of a British outfit parading under the German colors, the team might have a chance for success.

I think I can hear the snickers coming out of Ingolstadt with each passing day.
Well, we had the Germany-based toyota team and next to some podia that didn't worked out well either, did it?
Last edited by turbof1 on 17 Sep 2012, 21:12, edited 1 time in total.
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FoxHound
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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bhallg2k wrote: But, the Silver Arrow? Germans are notorious for precision, but I'm not quite so sure anyone at Mercedes AMG Petronas could precisely direct me to a toilet..

Yet they have a victory under their belt this year, and 2 pole positions, ok 1 but still counting Schumi's at Monaco. Not so sure that qualifies them as clueless or worthy of laughter. Sincerely mate, I don't, whatever Brawn is flapping about.
You say the W03 is fundamentally flawed. Do you have any quotes that testify this? From what I read, Mercedes sacked Bigois in April, didnt update for 4 months, in amongst hiring Elliott(yes another chief), then turned up to France last week with the starship enterprise(well, in terms of updates).
This is Mercedes, they are one big Giant PR machine. And my 2 cents is Stuttgart wouldn't accept Brawns explanation of development lead time for Elliott, and told him to "focus on the tyres". That old Chestnut 8)
So while we all may snigger, there is ample evidence circumstantial and concrete, that Mercedes changed alot of things behind the scenes. The upgraded windtunnel for example. What do you reckon? Plausible? Or is it more plausible that they are utter idiots who cant direct you to a toilet?
JET set

bhall
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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FoxHound wrote:Yet they have a victory under their belt this year
[...]
You say the W03 is fundamentally flawed. Do you have any quotes that testify this?
[...]
For what it's worth, Williams also has a win.
Ross Brawn wrote:The range of balance in the car is probably too great at the moment and that could be improved by the aerodynamic or mechanical side and we are working on both aspects to improve the car.
You don't have to read too far between the lines to know what he's said here. That means, "We don't know how to balance this car, only how to make it more or less unbalanced." That's a fundamental flaw, if you ask me.

In one form or another, this team has been around for over 30 years with little to show for it. Now, as Mercedes, it's taken them three years to do what teams like Ferrari, McLaren and others do in a matter of months, i.e. turn a shitbox into a winner. Only their development has returned the car to shitbox status. That, too, is laughable.

"Hey, look, we won a race. I guess we can stop working on the car now."

That really happened.

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SeijaKessen
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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turbof1 wrote:
Well, we had the Germany-based toyota team and next to some podia that didn't worked out well either, did it?
Where is Toyota located?

marcush.
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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toyota motorsport is near Cologne in Frechen .

about the cartoonism and name calling- I really only started this this year after all those empty announcements and false predictions .
I just called Schumi : Past it when everybody was sure he was definetely not a top driver anymore.
Norbert Haug and Ross Brawn do really beg for being called names these days and I absolutely disagree this thread would not be any better without a little bit of humour -as the situation is unbearable to me -a farce-costing tens of millions of €
this team is burning cash big time but acts and talks like your weekend amateur racers at least they make themselves look like this .Part of the problem is the way of communication they choose of course.But then with 250 +Mill€ budget you might even invest in chosing the right words to communicate your shortcomings.
Last edited by marcush. on 17 Sep 2012, 21:48, edited 1 time in total.

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SeijaKessen
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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marcush. wrote:toyota motorsport is near Cologne in Frechen .
Why thank you marcus. :)

You have more expertise than I in this area, but, do you think during Toyota's F1 participation, being located in Germany hindered or helped them?

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turbof1
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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SeijaKessen wrote:
marcush. wrote:toyota motorsport is near Cologne in Frechen .
Why thank you marcus. :)

You have more expertise than I in this area, but, do you think during Toyota's F1 participation, being located in Germany hindered or helped them?
That didn't hindered them. What really hindered them was the oh so slow decision making of the team. The team always had to stay in touch with the Toyota-board back in Japan. Updates actually had to be requested there. You can guess that took an awfull alot of time and when decisions finally fell, it was always too late.
The plant itself is state of the art, full with capable people. The fact they are still open, working now more independent from Toyota, is a given you don't see much. I think they infact had an advantage with that.
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