Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

[ArchAngel]

Car is now behind RBR,Ferrari,Mclaren,Lotus,Sauber & Force India. Its 7th Fastest.

Competitive my a**. Its a pile of ---. Heck I think in most races Williams have been better & Merc have been 8th fastest in many races

Williams are definitely faster, at least in Maldonado's terrifying hands. Right now, they're only faster than the regular back-markers and Torro Rosso... Oh wait...

[Morteza]

Car is now behind RBR,Ferrari,Mclaren,Lotus,Sauber & Force India. Its 7th Fastest.

Competitive my a**. Its a pile of ---. Heck I think in most races Williams have been better & Merc have been 8th fastest in many races

Williams are definitely faster, at least in Maldonado's terrifying hands. Right now, they're only faster than the regular back-markers and Torro Rosso... Oh wait...

Williams is a pretty good car. It's a shame Barrichello isn't driving for Williams this season, otherwise Mercedes would be in a worse condition. Williams' drivers are the reason for their lack of points.

[FoxHound]

That's odd. I recall the Mercedes being quicker than the Williams for longer parts of the season.
Granted Mercedes have lost form, but short term aside... The W03 has been quicker than the Williams.

[Morteza]

That's odd. I recall the Mercedes being quicker than the Williams for longer parts of the season.
Granted Mercedes have lost form, but short term aside... The W03 has been quicker than the Williams.

We can say that as well, but it took Mercedes very very long to finally upgrade their car. It was only in Singapore where they brought something new-the first time since Monaco. Williams has been developing their car faster if not better. Mercedes is a bit too little too late to me, you know. Reliability also has been a weak spot for Mercedes. They really have to overcome those problems.

[FoxHound]

Agree they need to sort out their reliability.

But it has crossed my mind the pickle Mercedes where/are in. This must go back a fair few months when Bigois was ushered out the back door...
Mike Elliot was poached from Lotus, meaning he was identified as the man to move merc forwards. Looking at the Lotus, you can see why Mercedes wanted him.
But the man worked in enstones 60% tunnels, not the 50% versions brackley had.

Mercedes had a choice, push forward design of the w03 upgrades, or give yourself a more sustainable plan for future seasons.
The culling of Bigois, the addition of Elliott and the wind tunnel change has hammered Mercedes this year in my opinion. Only next year can we decide whether it was all worth it. Especially when you consider the pace Mercedes had in the first 5 races of the year.

[Nando]

Williams is a pretty good car. It's a shame Barrichello isn't driving for Williams this season, otherwise Mercedes would be in a worse condition. Williams' drivers are the reason for their lack of points.

Barrichello would never in a million years have put that car on pole, won a race, or put it on the front row at Singapore.

He had 3 points more then Maldonado last year. Not exactly mindblowing.

[Adamski]

What do you think about the pace of the car in Japan? I'm pleased how Schumacher make progress during the race. He has the same speed as the front runners and he was not far away from Vettel's pace except the first stint. You can see it in the chart:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/10/07/2 ... ap-charts/

If he doesn't follow a car he was very fast. It's a bit strange as we know the W03 do not like these long and high speed corners. Maybe they made a lot of progress with the new exhaust?
Also the tires lasted longer on this abrasive surface then what we have used to see from Merc. Very interesting to see how they will cope with the critical first stint and with qualifying.

I think the better form should be confirmed as soon as we arrive to Korea race.

[SSS]

FOX - Not really. We have been hearing this issues for long. Short Wheelbase, Fat CAR, NoProper EBD, Tyre Eating, High EBD , not understanding tyres.

Its obvious this team is crap and will stay crap. Lewis will have to get used to being lapped and fighting HRT's.

Everyone has had problems. Lotus had a 50% model which they updated to 60%. Ferrari's entire windtunnel is in disarray and they had a crap car to begin with and look at them now and look at Mercedes. If in 2012 Mercedes cant beat Ferrari they can never beat Ferrari.

Everyone has certain disadvantages and problems and they perform despite those. Mercedes has been feeding pile of s*** excuses time and again and refuse to accept they are crap.

Its obvious. They are hopeless and doomed.

@ ADAMSKI - What is the difference between Hard and Soft Tyres?? 1 Second?? 1.5 Second?? Take that into account when MSC was running Softs & other guys hard. MSC's last 2 stints were SOFT(BRAND NEW UNUSED) while the other guys where on HARD TYRES.

[beelsebob]

Everyone has had problems. Lotus had a 50% model which they updated to 60%. Ferrari's entire windtunnel is in disarray and they had a crap car to begin with and look at them now and look at Mercedes. If in 2012 Mercedes cant beat Ferrari they can never beat Ferrari.

Yep, that's clearly true, after all, this team didn't beat ferrari in 2009... wait...

[FoxHound]

Everyone has had problems. Lotus had a 50% model which they updated to 60%. Ferrari's entire windtunnel is in disarray and they had a crap car to begin with and look at them now and look at Mercedes.

So Mercedes get all of 2 months use of their upgraded windtunnel, and you are judging them against Ferrari?

[elf341]

Does the dirty washing at these teams ever come out after the fact? I think it'd be fascinating if we found out what was happening 10 years down the line when someone writes a memoir. My bet is that Bigois was the weakness, he is probably someone who is quite capable, but just not on the same high level as the Aero heads from the other teams - would explain why it took a while for him to be replaced. Ultimately, it's the 8-out-of-10 people who are more damaging to teams than the 5-out-of-10 people.

[user001]

though its all very disappointing i think they will improve next season. but they will imho won't contend for any title. also in 2014. as johny herbert said: its not only bout the engine. its also bout the chassis. though they updated to 60% wind tunnel. i do not believe they will be pole setters at all. in 3 years they could not manage to resolve the tyre issues. why form now on? because they got elliot? very very disappointing. and the hardest, that schumacher won't profit from possible improvements.

[FoxHound]

My bet is that Bigois was the weakness, he is probably someone who is quite capable, but just not on the same high level as the Aero heads from the other teams.

His ideas never paid off. The car linage all had chronic lack of downforce as a familial trait, BGP001 apart.
In fairness the W03 was better, but I think not good enough especially when you consider it had Bell and Willis supervising.

[Adamski]

@ ADAMSKI - What is the difference between Hard and Soft Tyres?? 1 Second?? 1.5 Second?? Take that into account when MSC was running Softs & other guys hard. MSC's last 2 stints were SOFT(BRAND NEW UNUSED) while the other guys where on HARD TYRES.

How do you know that the soft tire is the better race tire?

Schumacher running a hard - soft - soft strategy while all the top ten drivers running the soft - hard - hard strategy. I think it is speaks for itself as nobody put back for the final stint the soft tires - except Schumacher.

He just managed well the tires to last long enough while continuously attacking and running behind different cars and we all know running behind are kills much faster the tires.

Just think twice why nobody put back for the final stint the soft tires.

[Dragonfly]

My simple view is this: Starting from the back with Schumacher the car reached it's natural position in the current standings and stayed behind the Torro Rosso to the end, no matter what tyre strategy was applied.