Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

[wunderkind]

Also need I remind you that rebadging Ilmor engines with Merc logos does not make it a Merc engine? Please, had Ron the Con stuck with Peugeot before dumping them for a bag of Deutschmarks, I imagine a McLaren-Peugeot would have been winning a championship or two. But even at that, McLaren in their partnership with the Silver Arrows has never achieved the level of success they had 20+ years ago.

The engine was only part of the equation. The McLarens prior to the arrival of Adrian Newey in 1997 were quite mediocre. The Peugeot engine would not have turned it into a winner. In fact, it was the Newey-designed front-wing installed to the MP4/12 late in the season that transformed the car.

[Vasconia]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103459 does anyone know what their young charger is smoking these days?

Even I read that and thought, "Oh, come on!"

More than funny these coments are quite sad, if they really think this they are even more lost than we expect.

And now India, with all these straights it should be good for Merc but the temperatures will be high, so they will struggle a lot, I dont expect more than 1 point if they can get it. Last year they finished 5th and 6th, in 14 days compare and realize how sad is the reality now.

[FoxHound]

Ilmor?
It was never solely Ilmor. Ilmor did not have the budget, nor the capacity to do F1 by themselves, which is why the whole project was Mercedes-Ilmor.
Sure, Ilmor brought know-how to the table, but had Mercedes started from scratch themselves they would have had to employ people from other companies like Ilmor to become competitive.
So what is the difference?

And since 2005, there is no Ilmor. Just Mercedes-Benz high performance Engines. You really should go for a tour, some very passionate staff work there.

[FoxHound]

And now India, with all these straights it should be good for Merc but the temperatures will be high, so they will struggle a lot, I dont expect more than 1 point if they can get it. Last year they finished 5th and 6th, in 14 days compare and realize how sad is the reality now.

I'm not so sure on these temps.... Korea was cool, and they went backwards. I think since the China victory, in cooler ambient temps, the car appears less prone in the hotter climbs but more prone in the cooler ones.

[SeijaKessen]

Also need I remind you that rebadging Ilmor engines with Merc logos does not make it a Merc engine? Please, had Ron the Con stuck with Peugeot before dumping them for a bag of Deutschmarks, I imagine a McLaren-Peugeot would have been winning a championship or two. But even at that, McLaren in their partnership with the Silver Arrows has never achieved the level of success they had 20+ years ago.

The engine was only part of the equation. The McLarens prior to the arrival of Adrian Newey in 1997 were quite mediocre. The Peugeot engine would not have turned it into a winner. In fact, it was the Newey-designed front-wing installed to the MP4/12 late in the season that transformed the car.

I seem to recall a lot of blown Ilm--er I mean Merc engines that season.

Why, I recall a McLaren 1-2 at the Nurburgring till both engines blew.

[FoxHound]

By the standards of McLaren's recent cars the MP4/9 was a disappointment, failing to win any races (the first time McLaren had failed to win a race since 1980) and hampered by poor reliability and performance from its Peugeot engine (taken from the Peugeot 905 sportscar that won Le Mans twice). Early in the season McLaren team boss Ron Dennis had believed rivalry between the French manufacturer and compatriots Renault would lead to rapid development and performance. As the season progressed the engines suffered regular, and frequently spectacular, failures and the team began to doubt Peugeot's commitment to the project. By late 1994 the team announced it had parted company with the engine supplier in favour of a long term deal with Mercedes.

sourced from Wikipedia.

12 Peugeot engine failures during the season I seem to read on other sites. Allied to being underpowered and heavy(engine sourced from sportscars), it's quite remarkable you think Peugeot would be winning with McLaren. McLaren ditched them for good reason.....and Peugeot went on to win....nothing in F1.

So much for that, eh Seija?

[clipsy1H]

by the way... after shitty result in Korea Michael didn't even refresh his website with a declaration, last post refers to qualifying

btw2: there is any chance to rain in india?

[SeijaKessen]

By the standards of McLaren's recent cars the MP4/9 was a disappointment, failing to win any races (the first time McLaren had failed to win a race since 1980) and hampered by poor reliability and performance from its Peugeot engine (taken from the Peugeot 905 sportscar that won Le Mans twice). Early in the season McLaren team boss Ron Dennis had believed rivalry between the French manufacturer and compatriots Renault would lead to rapid development and performance. As the season progressed the engines suffered regular, and frequently spectacular, failures and the team began to doubt Peugeot's commitment to the project. By late 1994 the team announced it had parted company with the engine supplier in favour of a long term deal with Mercedes.

sourced from Wikipedia.

12 Peugeot engine failures during the season I seem to read on other sites. Allied to being underpowered and heavy(engine sourced from sportscars), it's quite remarkable you think Peugeot would be winning with McLaren. McLaren ditched them for good reason.....and Peugeot went on to win....nothing in F1.

So much for that, eh Seija?

1994 podium finishes with Peugeot engines: 8

1995 podium finishes with Mercedes engines: 2

Want to try again JET?

[Richard]

Want to try again JET?

No thank you.

We already have a thread for this topic .... viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13178&view=unread#unread

[siskue2005]

by the way... after shitty result in Korea Michael didn't even refresh his website with a declaration, last post refers to qualifying

btw2: there is any chance to rain in india?

No chance mate, but it won't be as hot as you guys think....coz it is starting of winter in north India
If it was during may June, then we could have seen temp like in Malaysia
But now it will stay around 25 -27 Celsius

[marcush.]

to finish of this -
I ´m not expecting them be told anything from a formula 1 team .But I certainly expect EVERYTHING they publish to make sense .
But ..quite obviously this team more than any other on the grid is selling assumptions and theories as facts before even attempting to prove their point.
MGP seems to be the last of the area of trial and error R&D Science is too complicated /interelated -to allow for such a one dimensional approach.
Mind you this is how it looks like to the world -I don´t claim they are working like this.

[Raptor22]

By the standards of McLaren's recent cars the MP4/9 was a disappointment, failing to win any races (the first time McLaren had failed to win a race since 1980) and hampered by poor reliability and performance from its Peugeot engine (taken from the Peugeot 905 sportscar that won Le Mans twice). Early in the season McLaren team boss Ron Dennis had believed rivalry between the French manufacturer and compatriots Renault would lead to rapid development and performance. As the season progressed the engines suffered regular, and frequently spectacular, failures and the team began to doubt Peugeot's commitment to the project. By late 1994 the team announced it had parted company with the engine supplier in favour of a long term deal with Mercedes.

sourced from Wikipedia.

12 Peugeot engine failures during the season I seem to read on other sites. Allied to being underpowered and heavy(engine sourced from sportscars), it's quite remarkable you think Peugeot would be winning with McLaren. McLaren ditched them for good reason.....and Peugeot went on to win....nothing in F1.

So much for that, eh Seija?

Actually Dennis only went with peugoet because the engines were free. If he had opted for the Lamborghini V12 which Senna had tried out and loved, Senna would have stayed at McLaren. But Dennis would have to pay for those so he ditched the idea and Senna said cheers. The rest is history...

THe Ilmor Mercedes Engine was also free in a deal where mercedes would ramp up involvement with the team in a sort of technology exchange for sponsorship deal. Mercedes sucked at road car engines at the time, especially finding it problematic communicating what they wanted out of ECU's to Bosch. Their own electronics was also quite poor and McLaren had some interesting solutions around electro mechanical gearbox actuation for fully and semi automatic functioning, CVT technology they were developing, and EBD integration for higher performance cars.
What MErcedes learned form McLaren they trickled down to theri raod car engine line by the early 21st century.

[Forza]

It was a very poor weekend for them. Qualifying ninth and 10th, behind a small team like Force India, is not good enough for a team the size of Mercedes - and they went backwards in the race as well. Nico Rosberg was wiped out on the first lap, but Michael Schumacher's race was anonymous and he slipped back to finish 13th.

I've been speaking to a few of the guys there and they say there are so many people that nobody makes any decisions any more.

It's only three years since the same team - then called Brawn - won the championship.OK, they had lots of Honda money to develop the car and the secret weapon of the 'double diffuser', and it wouldn't have happened without that. But back then it was a one-man band with Ross Brawn leading the team - and then, when Honda pulled out and they cut the workforce back, it was even more like that. Now, after a major recruitment programme, they have a multi-man band and there are four guys in there who have been technical directors at other teams all doing different roles.

Meanwhile, Red Bull have Adrian Newey. He has a great team of people around him but he is the captain of the ship.
Brawn argues that everyone at Mercedes has defined roles and knows what they're supposed to be doing and the parameters of their responsibility.But you have to look at their slide in performance after a promising start to this season and say something is going badly wrong there.

S :Gary Anderson, BBC F1's technical analyst

[marcush.]

I wonder why guys like Anderson only now realise this cannot work.
RedBull certainly is not the team to compare ,as Newey is there .
BTW Anderson was designing cars there (Stewart GP-Jag) no good cars .The single car that was something was the Jordan 191 ,right?

[Raptor22]

I wonder why guys like Anderson only now realise this cannot work.
RedBull certainly is not the team to compare ,as Newey is there .
BTW Anderson was designing cars there (Stewart GP-Jag) no good cars .The single car that was something was the Jordan 191 ,right?

Anderson's Jordan 191 throught to 194 were actually pretty good cars but hindered from the 192 onward by the Yamaha Engine. Once they ditched it in for the 94 season they picked up performance again. They used a SASOL funded Hart engine for 94.
After that they went backwards for a couple of years till they got Mugen engines but by then Gascoye was the TD>