Sandia cooler. Can it be applied to F1 engines?

[PlatinumZealot]

A very nice video on a new cooling technology.

http://hexus.net/tech/news/cooling/4148 ... efficient/

Imagine these on your radiators or your KERS!

[tathan]

I guess it only works because it's such a small gap so you'd think it would need a flat surface to cool, so radiators are a no no.

Also, it's an active cooling system, so uses energy, whereas F1 cars use airflow around the car rather than having to generate it. Don't see how even a very efficient active cooling is going to be worth it over passive.

Nice idea though.

[Jersey Tom]

Little bit different in concept, given that the application it's developed for is effectively stagnant air, whereas radiators and oil coolers and all are designed to work off a forced air stream. Pretty cool on its own though.

In any event, keep this in mind - F1 does not embrace cutting edge or new technology. No active suspensions, no all wheel drive, no traction control, no direct injection, etc etc. Inerters only found their way in the sport after a similar concept (tuned mass damper) was outlawed earlier. Gadgets and gizmos are only added to the mix if they have the potential to make the show more interesting (or as I would say more bluntly, crutch the lack of good racing). DRS and KERS are prime examples of that.

[Lycoming]

It could certainly be applied to F1 engines, but would you want to? For a number of reasons, I would say no.

One relating to practicality is that it works best with point heat sources, ie. a CPU. For something like an engine, you need to gather heat using water like you normally do but then instead of just putting that water through a radiator and calling it good, you have no put it through something similar to a waterblock, then have the sandia cooler dissipate the heat off of that. Not very elegant. big increase in parts count, especially when you add in all the electrical stuff needed for an active cooling system. Chapman would not be pleased.

Additionally, one of its main selling points is that dust doesn't accumulate on it. In F1 this is irrelevant. Potential advantages that it does bring to the table aren't really that many.

[flmkane]

Little bit different in concept, given that the application it's developed for is effectively stagnant air, whereas radiators and oil coolers and all are designed to work off a forced air stream. Pretty cool on its own though.

In any event, keep this in mind - F1 does not embrace cutting edge or new technology. No active suspensions, no all wheel drive, no traction control, no direct injection, etc etc. Inerters only found their way in the sport after a similar concept (tuned mass damper) was outlawed earlier. Gadgets and gizmos are only added to the mix if they have the potential to make the show more interesting (or as I would say more bluntly, crutch the lack of good racing). DRS and KERS are prime examples of that.

Huh? What you mean to say is that F1 tends to BAN new technologies. The teams themselves would embrace them. Not disagreeing with you, I just think your presentation of the facts is a bit confusing.

Also, the inerter has been around since 2005.It first appeared on the Mclaren Mp4-20. It slightly pre-dates the active mass Damper Renault used.

[Jersey Tom]

Fair point. By F1 I do mean the series rather than the individual teams or engineers.

Many existing and emerging technologies are out there that could be applied to various bits of a F1 car. Ultimately though it's not the MO of the series or governing body. Being on the cutting edge just isn't it. High level of refinement, yes.. cutting, edge no.

[Sombrero]

I can see a big problem with the use of fan(s). It would be interesting to see something back like the pristine Brabham BT-46-Alfa Romeo with its air-cooling surface concept. That BT46 was a wonderfull looking car that never raced. It was discarted after few days of testing. At the time, it was portrayed as using "space age tech" but it didn't work.

Can something similar in concept work in 2014 ?



more : http://hooniverse.com/2011/09/21/hooniv ... ever-seen/

[Lycoming]

If you mean having all the cooling come from a flat, flush mounted plate, I suspect that would still be a bad idea today. If you mean sticking sandia coolers on top of such a surface, that somewhat defeats the purpose of minimum drag.

That cooling solution, I don't really see it as that clever of an idea... I mean, it essentially de-invents the radiator. Maybe if he had some fins on it that could have been used for flow conditioning, but that wouldn't be legal now.

[krisfx]

Isn't it all irrelevant anyway as fans are banned in F1 cars?

[autogyro]

It is just another type of fan for blowing air over a surface.
The main problem for CPU or chip cooling is that it relies on its marketing by doing away with the heat sink.
This allows the Sandia fan to be a smaller device.
However the heat sink is an essential safety factor in preventing a rapid burn out if the fan fails.
In a decent computer a warning can be given and the computer shut off.
With this device a failure results in a CPU burn out.

For F1 it may be possible to use the device with its central intake level with a body surface so that the boundary layer flowing over that surface could be improved as well as using the air to take heat from a heat exchanger surface beneath the device circulating powertrain cooling fluids. However it would be seen as a movable aerodynamic device.

[mep]

Pööö, they make such a hype around what is basically a simple pump. Pumps like that have been around for centuries. I really can’t see how they can sell this now as innovative. They should rather focus on the main problem with this device: “How to get the heat into the rotor”. So far the rotor is isolated from the heat by this thin gab of air. No matter how thin this layer is, it will drastically reduce efficiency of the cooler because it relies on radiation from the relatively thin circular surface. The rotor on top seems to be oversized relative to that. I think the blades should be hollowed out to let allow for hot water flowing through them.

[PlatinumZealot]

If you mean having all the cooling come from a flat, flush mounted plate, I suspect that would still be a bad idea today. If you mean sticking sandia coolers on top of such a surface, that somewhat defeats the purpose of minimum drag.

That cooling solution, I don't really see it as that clever of an idea... I mean, it essentially de-invents the radiator. Maybe if he had some fins on it that could have been used for flow conditioning, but that wouldn't be legal now.

Remember the key problem is the boundary layer on the surface of a radiator. It still exists even in an F1 car.

The sandia cooler is effectively replacing and outperforming something like this in a Computer Case:



I know moving parts are not allowed under the rules.... But It you could get away with a much smaller and lighter radiators.

[PlatinumZealot]

Pööö, they make such a hype around what is basically a simple pump. Pumps like that have been around for centuries. I really can’t see how they can sell this now as innovative. They should rather focus on the main problem with this device: “How to get the heat into the rotor”. So far the rotor is isolated from the heat by this thin gab of air. No matter how thin this layer is, it will drastically reduce efficiency of the cooler because it relies on radiation from the relatively thin circular surface. The rotor on top seems to be oversized relative to that. I think the blades should be hollowed out to let allow for hot water flowing through them.

It doesn't matter because the Thermal conductivity of the air bearing is still far higher than the thermal conductivity on the radiator surface. That's how they can get away with the radiator not touching the heat source.

[mep]

What???
You have to transfer the heat from the first stationary metal plate to the air, through the air gab and then back to the metal rotor.
Do you really want to tell me that this should be better than transferring the heat from a spinning rotor to air?
Still the surface area of the plates is relatively small especially when comparing to the big surface area of the rotor plates which take advantage of the air moving very quick over them.
I doubt this is better than having a huge surface area of a conventional cooler and moving some air over it for forced convection.

[Scuderia Nuvolari]

It states that it turns 5000 rpm, counter clockwise

If it were south of the equator, would it have to turn clockwise to maintain it's efficiency?