Sauber C32 Ferrari

[stefan_]

Barcelona Session 1 - Day 4 (22.02.2013)

[Artur Craft]

what is curious about the DRD is that they put quite a big piece of bodywork(in this case the pipe) in the low pressure zone(in a car's wing, it's the bottom)

In Airplanes, they avoid putting anything over the wing because that can easily interfere in the amount of lift generated. The Le Mans Prototype teams do the same thing and even put the support in the upper side of the wing in order to leave the low pressure zone clean of any object:


click here to see in high resolution:
http://www.quattroworld.com/wp-content/ ... 4-8422.jpg



Later I'll see if I can find, through CFD, roughly how much downforce is lost due to that pipe being there

[zonk]

The sharkfin in LMP is mandatory

[Huntresa]

Maybe its because the le mans cars alrdy have very limited amount of downforce from that skinny ass wing so they dont wanna lose more.

[Artur Craft]

The sharkfin in LMP is mandatory

Yeah, it's to help avoid flips, if I'm not mistaken.

Still, they put the support to it over the wing due to the thing I said before:


I already knew this because airplanes' designers don't want any bodywork above the wing because the low pressure zone is much more sensitive, and this is not a guess of mine.

The same issue was said in an article on mulsannecorner.com(or some other place, can't remember exactly) a while ago but it would take quite some time to find, I'm afraid

[wesley123]

1. There isnt any wing support, it is piping for the DDRS(or w/e it is called) which stalls the center of the wing.
2. They cannot place a support like that on the wing as it would fall in the forbidden area.

[Artur Craft]

1. There isnt any wing support, it is piping for the DDRS(or w/e it is called) which stalls the center of the wing.
2. They cannot place a support like that on the wing as it would fall in the forbidden area.

If you read my 2 previous posts again, this time carefully, you'll see how useless this last post of your's was

[wesley123]

1. There isnt any wing support, it is piping for the DDRS(or w/e it is called) which stalls the center of the wing.
2. They cannot place a support like that on the wing as it would fall in the forbidden area.

If you read my 2 previous posts again, this time carefully, you'll see how useless this last post of your's was

Please explain because I dont notice it.

You are talking about a pipe being in the low pressure zone and are comparing that to the shark fins/wing support of LMP's to which I came to my post, since they are not even close to being similar, so please enhance why you'd name it.

[Tatsu333]

what is curious about the DRD is that they put quite a big piece of bodywork(in this case the pipe) in the low pressure zone(in a car's wing, it's the bottom)

In Airplanes, they avoid putting anything over the wing because that can easily interfere in the amount of lift generated. The Le Mans Prototype teams do the same thing and even put the support in the upper side of the wing in order to leave the low pressure zone clean of any object:

Later I'll see if I can find, through CFD, roughly how much downforce is lost due to that pipe being there

I believe that's kind of the idea with the DRD - it will primarily be used at circuits where the benefit of the reduced drag from the DRD at higher speeds outweighs the loss of downforce at medium speeds. In fact, because the DRD has more effect at or above certain speeds (depending on how it is tuned), the teams can run more rear wing to regain that downforce in the medium-speed corners without suffering as much of a penalty on the fast straights.

At circuits where downforce is crucial (E.G. Monaco), the DRD will not be used.

[Artur Craft]

Ok, I'll explain, since you are confused with this:

1. There isnt any wing support, it is piping for the DDRS(or w/e it is called) which stalls the center of the wing.
2. They cannot place a support like that on the wing as it would fall in the forbidden area.

If you read my 2 previous posts again, this time carefully, you'll see how useless this last post of your's was

really? captain ultra obvious

This is what I wrote in my first post on it: (maybe now, in bold, you can see the inutility of your post there):

what is curious about the DRD is that they put quite a big piece of bodywork(in this case the pipe) in the low pressure zone(in a car's wing, it's the bottom)

I NEVER said it to be a wing support, I always made it very clear that it was a pipe of the DRD

About your second remark, I NEVER said teams should or would place a support on the wing.

I just made an analogy with a piece of bodywork in the LMP1s(in that case a support for the sharfin) that is placed in the upper side of the wing in order for it to not disturb the low pressure underneath the rear wing.

The point was just that bodywork in low pressure zones of wings are not the optimal thing.

[bhall]

[...]

The point was just that bodywork in low pressure zones of wings are not the optimal thing.

Because the jet isn't physically connected to the underside of the wing and the razor-thin boundary layer flow can pass cleanly through the gap, it shouldn't be an issue. (I think.)

[Artur Craft]

[...]

The point was just that bodywork in low pressure zones of wings are not the optimal thing.

Because the jet isn't physically connected to the underside of the wing and the razor-thin boundary layer flow can pass cleanly through the gap, it shouldn't be an issue. (I think.)

That's what I would guess too, but that is not the point I was making.

But thinking again about my concern, it probably isn't a issue because the pipes are very thin and will have a minimal(I hope) influence on the airflow underneath the wing.

My concern was based on a fact that bodywork(of some not tiny frontal area) will affect the flow on a low pressure zone, causing the airflow to decelerate and, therefore, take some amount of downforce/lift away from the airfoil

PS: Wesley, I have been reading your posts for quite a long time and I truely think you're a great poster. This was all just a misunderstanding

[wesley123]

what bhallg2k above me said; The pipe doesnt actually connect to the rear wing(well the Lotus spec did last year, but iic they stepped away from that too), therefore I dont think the pipe actually effects the low pressure that much. of course it does a little, but I dont think it is enough to be a point of concern.

While now I understand where you are going at, I dont think that showing those LMP's and their solution is really applicable here. Yes, a mount on the top side of the wing is more efficient because it doesnt disrupt the low pressure flow.

It's application isnt really that applicable here because of reasons;
1. The DRD doesnt connect to the underside of the wing, and disrupts the flow here very little
2. Due to F1's rules a swan neck support requires a shorter chord to bend over the wing. Also the wing itself cannot be broken op to provide slots to blow through this.

But yes, if the DRD did connect to the underside of the wing it it would disturb it's function.

EDIT: Not a problem Arthur. I sometimes get lost in the words lol, so by that I sometimes have a hard time fully understanding the post.

[stefan_]

Barcelona Session 1 - Day 4 (22.02.2013)








High resolution:
http://www.formule1.nl/media/uploads/me ... 390.56.jpg

http://www.formule1.nl/media/uploads/me ... 241.72.jpg

[Nando]

Sexy looking car this.
I´m not really sure what to make of the speed. I´d like to think it´s a podium contender but it might just be another innovative Sauber that´s stuck in the mid-field picking up pieces if the top teams mess up.