2013 Testing - Barcelona 1: 19 - 22 Feb

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 1: 19 - 28 Feb

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Credit to sky, Next test is being televised. Live on each day from 2pm onwards. First time ever for winter testing!! Cant wait!!!!! So glad BBC dont have exclusive rights anymore!!! GO SKY GO =D> =D>
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iotar__
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 1: 19 - 28 Feb

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hollus wrote:Jerez is expected to have temperatures of up to 15, even 20C at midday in the sun, at that time of the year. Neither Valencia nor Aragon are.
Of course one can then be unlucky and end up testing at 7C. Still better that the snow you get in Aragon if you are unlucky.
The weather forecast for tomorrow midday in Jerez is 13C. In Barcelona 8C, in Aragon 5C and in Valencia 11C.
Yet they still go to Barcelona for far more useful testing despite temperature differences. Conclusion: temperatures don't matter, track and surface do.
beelsebob wrote:
iotar__ wrote:Since the beginning of the tests we hear that Jerez is an unusual track, high degradation, temperatures and layout unlike any track they use during the season. In short: not very useful. So forgive me for asking the obvious: why test there at all?!
Because testing can still tell you a lot of things – like whether air is flowing to the places you expect it to flow, whether suspension is reacting the way you expect it to, whether the gearbox blows up 3 laps short of a race distance, ...

Note – the last test, and next is in fact at the Circuit de Catalunya, which is very like a circuit they race at during the year ;)
The answer that they need two different tracks makes no sense when one of them is not useful. Costs? I don't think so. Weather? How? Better to have three days in Barcelona than four in Jerez. What else?
They do need multiple kinds of track – the Circuit de Catalunya is the single most high speed downforce biased circuits on the calendar. They need circuits that test low speed things too.
Not good enough:
1. Argument that they test "other" things is rather weak. They can still test all of that AND MORE in Barcelona. Albeit in a colder conditions.
2. So what exactly is in Jerez when it comes to low speed that is missing from Barcelona? Remember that it makes little sense to test low speed corners on their own, it's about overall balance and to test that you need variety of corners and straights TOGETHER.

The reason I asked is because basically everyone downplays Jerez:
- Coughlan cited above (this one triggered this question) says if it was Barcelona they wouldn't have skipped the first test
- Alonso missing the tests - because it's Jerez
- we don't know where everyone is pace-wise - because it's Jerez.
- and so on.

Why not go to Barcelona straight away then? Just because it's a bit colder?

f1316
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 1: 19 - 28 Feb

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Rikhart wrote:
munudeges wrote:
f1316 wrote:In saying that, however, I'm not sure that the article takes into account the cold conditions enough. It's a different kind of degradation than they would experience in hotter conditions....
In hotter conditions things are going to be exponentially worse. That's why I'm particularly interested in Lotus.
Actually Pirelli says it´s exactly the other way around, with hotter track temperatures we will see milder degradation.
Exactly. I'll defer to Scarbs' comments on why the cold creates this kind of deg:

"@scarbsf1: “The problem is known as cold tear. The tyre is cold and hence harder than it should be, so the tyre will slide more and literally tears the tread surface away. This obviously wears the tyre more quickly.”

If it was really hot, they would obviously find that they were overheating the tyres, but the cause would therefore be different and you could argue that you'd therefore see different cars with problems.

In fact, with Scarbs' comments in mind, it seems that Ferrari's problem might well be that they're still quite kind on tyres - i.e. the tyres are not being brought to a high enough temperature and are therefore too hard. The conditions in Barcelona are unlikely to be reporduced at most GPs this year, so the teams' concern is more that this data on tyre is completely irrelevant.

CjC
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 1: 19 - 28 Feb

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NathanOlder wrote:Credit to sky, Next test is being televised. Live on each day from 2pm onwards. First time ever for winter testing!! Cant wait!!!!! So glad BBC dont have exclusive rights anymore!!! GO SKY GO =D> =D>
Hell yea, Sky has improved the platform for english fans by far in my opinion.

Anyone seen the forecast for the next test? I know it's a long forecast prediction at the moment but it's not looking good for the first couple of days.
Just a fan's point of view

StrikeForceF1
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 1: 19 - 28 Feb

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f1316 wrote:Exactly. I'll defer to Scarbs' comments on why the cold creates this kind of deg:

"@scarbsf1: “The problem is known as cold tear. The tyre is cold and hence harder than it should be, so the tyre will slide more and literally tears the tread surface away. This obviously wears the tyre more quickly.”

If it was really hot, they would obviously find that they were overheating the tyres, but the cause would therefore be different and you could argue that you'd therefore see different cars with problems.

In fact, with Scarbs' comments in mind, it seems that Ferrari's problem might well be that they're still quite kind on tyres - i.e. the tyres are not being brought to a high enough temperature and are therefore too hard. The conditions in Barcelona are unlikely to be reporduced at most GPs this year, so the teams' concern is more that this data on tyre is completely irrelevant.
Agree with you 100% I don't think the pirelli's were not designed to be used in these cold condtions and that is why tyre degradation is higher....also think that Ferrari is not getting enough temp into the tyres at this stage(kinder to its tyres).....I think coming to some other tracks where temps are a little higher...they might be the ones in the sweet spot of the tyres and if the temps are way hotter they may suffer bit more degradation also...what is more important to me is that Nando made mention that the car responded very well to set up changes ....the car behaved as they expected it to and also what Fry has been saying that they are where they expected to be with the tunnel/simulation data....ie there is correlation and the gains made in the tunnel can be translated to the track..what to me is interesting is the teams with the low degradation right now might be the ones suffering higher degradation come most of the race tracks.....I could be totally wrong however and the only thing we really know is that almost all of the cars will have updates bolted on at some time during next test....
Last edited by Richard on 25 Feb 2013, 14:45, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Corrected quote

GrizzleBoy
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 1: 19 - 28 Feb

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GrizzleBoy wrote:
NathanOlder wrote:
Ferraripilot wrote:The GP pole lap was 1:21.7. 3 tenths quicker.
It was, but in all fairness The car that did that lap was under weight and illegal :)

I think the main point he was getting at was Raikkonen was faster in Testing than he was in Qualy for the real race. Which Im finding a little odd aswell. They using the same layout for testing ?
In testing you're finding the max performance of the car/tyre combination.

By the time the Barca race came about last year, they'd have realised that they can't push the tyres so hard in qualy without hurting themselves in the race.

Hence Kimi not making Q3 by a single place in a tyre shredding Bahrain (possibly by choice), yet going through the field to take second place come race end.
Someone really went all the way back through this thread to downvote me for this post?

Why? This kind of thing seems to be happening quite a bit round here.

Edit: And again :roll:

And again LMAO wow, that's pretty sad guys......I guess if it makes you feel any better about yourselves, please just keep clicking the minus button.
Last edited by GrizzleBoy on 25 Feb 2013, 18:39, edited 3 times in total.

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Vasconia
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 1: 19 - 28 Feb

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Rikhart wrote:
munudeges wrote:
f1316 wrote:In saying that, however, I'm not sure that the article takes into account the cold conditions enough. It's a different kind of degradation than they would experience in hotter conditions....
In hotter conditions things are going to be exponentially worse. That's why I'm particularly interested in Lotus.
Actually Pirelli says it´s exactly the other way around, with hotter track temperatures we will see milder degradation.
True, tyres behaviour under these cold conditions are totally different but sometimes even with such conditions we can guess which cars are better or worse with the tyres. And I expect Ferrari to struggle a little bit.

Some rain and fresh temperatures, not the best ones to collect reliable data:

http://www.accuweather.com/en/es/montme ... er/1456480

munudeges
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 1: 19 - 28 Feb

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f1316 wrote:Actually Pirelli says it´s exactly the other way around, with hotter track temperatures we will see milder degradation.

Exactly. I'll defer to Scarbs' comments on why the cold creates this kind of deg:

"@scarbsf1: “The problem is known as cold tear. The tyre is cold and hence harder than it should be, so the tyre will slide more and literally tears the tread surface away. This obviously wears the tyre more quickly.”
That's tyre wear, not degradation. Besides, it's the same for everyone. If you're moving the car around then you're going to have problems, hot or cold.

f1316
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 1: 19 - 28 Feb

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munudeges wrote:
f1316 wrote:Actually Pirelli says it´s exactly the other way around, with hotter track temperatures we will see milder degradation.

Exactly. I'll defer to Scarbs' comments on why the cold creates this kind of deg:

"@scarbsf1: “The problem is known as cold tear. The tyre is cold and hence harder than it should be, so the tyre will slide more and literally tears the tread surface away. This obviously wears the tyre more quickly.”
That's tyre wear, not degradation. Besides, it's the same for everyone. If you're moving the car around then you're going to have problems, hot or cold.
What was the original point? That Ferrari's car was getting slower due to the way it was using its tyres; call it what you will, but "to degrade" is simply to get worse, so it was used in a generic sense in this instance.

OppositeLock
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 1: 19 - 28 Feb

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Stories are beginning to surface that the Renault powered teams have been using illegal engine maps. :P http://www.f1zone.net/news/engine-maps- ... tus/17878/ Maybe Lotus and Red Bull won't look as good with the proper engine mapping :twisted:

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Hail22
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 1: 19 - 28 Feb

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OppositeLock wrote:Stories are beginning to surface that the Renault powered teams have been using illegal engine maps. :P http://www.f1zone.net/news/engine-maps- ... tus/17878/ Maybe Lotus and Red Bull won't look as good with the proper engine mapping :twisted:
Very interesting, we will need to take a look at this weeks last test in order to gain an idea whether or not this so called "engine mapping" was taking place at the previous two tests.
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Joie de vivre
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 1: 19 - 28 Feb

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Reffered for only last year? They gotta be kidding! Yes, they set those regulations only for last year, this year you can map it the way you want ... #-o

prince
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 1: 19 - 28 Feb

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Joie de vivre wrote:Reffered for only last year? They gotta be kidding! Yes, they set those regulations only for last year, this year you can map it the way you want ... #-o
With the fact that, there is nothing much changed on the engine side, I don't see a reason why this regulation was only applicable for last year. It's a regulation set on engine maps and the engine being the same, the regulation will continue to be applied. Being such smart engineering people, I would expect that rather than assuming the regulation was only for last year, they should have got a clarification from charlie whiting on the matter.

f1316
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 1: 19 - 28 Feb

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I don't think we should be surprised about this. The FIA's approach over the last two years has been to clamp down on this whole area of engine-mapping and using the exhaust for aerodynamic effect.

Renault obviously began to get around the new regulations in the middle of last season, at which point the FIA essentially said "no, we want it kept the way it was at the start of the year". What Brawn calls “a clever engine management system" is exactly what the FIA has been trying to outlaw, so anything that 'reset' that was always going to meet resistance.

EDIT: Rightly or wrongly, I just don't think it's surprising

dxpetrov
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 1: 19 - 28 Feb

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I think as per the regulations teams are to submit new maps at the beginning of each season. What would be a point of testing if you're not allowed to readjust your map to best suit your engine? This is a ridicoulous rumor as always from AMuS.