2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

[kooleracer]

Max Chilton and Esteban Guiterez are really 2 disappointing additions to F1. Really a shame that Razia (Marussia) and Robin Frijns (Sauber) aren't in those cars. They are both failed to impress me so far. Hope that Frijns will get a chance in a Friday practice session during the season, dying to see how he compares to Hulkenberg. The Sauber was good enough for top 12 and he doesn't even manage to proceed to Q2 that is really disappointing.

[Phillyred]

Well I know, I just want real qualifying to see who can go the fastest period as it should be.

I know it's been said before, but I'd like to see some points awarded for qualifying in addition to the current points system. Because, you wonder if some of the teams deliberately qualified on mediums to start the race with them.

Errr... I don't think anyone is wondering that. They did do that.

[bhall]

You'll need to take that up with Pirelli.

[andartop]

Interesting to read what Webber had to say about the tires:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106731

[fiohaa]

Interesting to read what Webber had to say about the tires:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106731

well its what we've been saying all along but the pirelli defenders apparently prefer this kind of 'racing' more than the drivers.
i have to say......im genuinely excited about tomorrow, not for racing because that doesn't exist anymore, but just for the entertainment value of a lavish expensive tyre test.
if you're trying to make it unpredictable, you might as well go full extreme.

[myurr]

The problem with the tyre bashers is that they don't have any suggestions that are likely to improve the racing. Most suggestions that I've seen lead back to boring processional races which I don't see as an improvement. Nine times out of ten the cars line up in pace order, and without the chance to change setups through another practice session like they used to do there are few reasons for cars race pace to be all that different, and therefore there'll be little racing. The current Pirelli tyres are a bandage, as is DRS, but having a bandage is generally better than not having one as long as you realise there's an underlying problem that needs addressing. Problems arise when the bandage becomes the solution, and that is where the FIA have a case to answer.

I still think that the best short term answer, at least that I can think of, is to allow each driver to nominate which tyres they want to bring to each race. That way they can all choose the compromise that works best for them - outright pace vs durability vs expected temperature ranges vs track surface etc. Pirelli will still have people talking about the tyres as they're still a factor in the races, but the drivers and teams will only have themselves to blame if they bring the wrong compounds or can't make any of the sets of tyres work for them.

Longer term I'd like to see the size and complexity of the front wing reduced, mandated low noses, removal of blown diffusers, but a corresponding increase in mechanical grip with more durability from the tyres. If they could push the tyres hard and two stop, or drive conservatively and one stop, and have the two stop be generally a little quicker, then that would be ideal. Fortunately some of that is already happening.

[fiohaa]

The problem with the tyre bashers is that they don't have any suggestions that are likely to improve the racing. Most suggestions that I've seen lead back to boring processional races which I don't see as an improvement. Nine times out of ten the cars line up in pace order, and without the chance to change setups through another practice session like they used to do there are few reasons for cars race pace to be all that different, and therefore there'll be little racing. The current Pirelli tyres are a bandage, as is DRS, but having a bandage is generally better than not having one as long as you realise there's an underlying problem that needs addressing. Problems arise when the bandage becomes the solution, and that is where the FIA have a case to answer.

I still think that the best short term answer, at least that I can think of, is to allow each driver to nominate which tyres they want to bring to each race. That way they can all choose the compromise that works best for them - outright pace vs durability vs expected temperature ranges vs track surface etc. Pirelli will still have people talking about the tyres as they're still a factor in the races, but the drivers and teams will only have themselves to blame if they bring the wrong compounds or can't make any of the sets of tyres work for them.

Longer term I'd like to see the size and complexity of the front wing reduced, mandated low noses, removal of blown diffusers, but a corresponding increase in mechanical grip with more durability from the tyres. If they could push the tyres hard and two stop, or drive conservatively and one stop, and have the two stop be generally a little quicker, then that would be ideal. Fortunately some of that is already happening.

this 'it'll go back to processional racing' doesn't make any sense, i dont know how this bog standard argument gained fashion but its total rubbish.
-why would it be a procession with DRS?
-how is it Not a procession now? with drivers cruising around following one another, and as Webber says, they cannot even afford to race for fear of using up too much tyres
- any overtakes in the last 2 years have been due to either DRS, or one car on a completely different phase of tyre wear to another.
- racing is stopped after final round of pitstops anyway (between teammates), as has always been the case....and seeing as these tyres are supposed to make it unpredictable to the end, that 'long game advantage' isn't even a factor anymore.
- the teams with the biggest budgets are still on top.........oh look who has won the last 3 years in a row......
- i dont know how you've formed this memory that its always been a procession, but pre DRS, there always used to be 2 rivals in different teams battling to the very last lap....overtaking was difficult, but it never stopped the guy behind from having to push to the end.
- one of the best races last year was the US Grand prix, because pirelli had brought conservative tyres, which allowed Hamilton to Push for the entire last stint and slowly slowly catch Vettel to pass. Thats how things...used to be.

it is clear that the people who support this tyre conservation racing are not Racing fans, in the purist sense of the word.
Clearly the racing drivers themselves agree with me, both in that Autosport article posted above, and with Webber and Hamiltons comments in the press conference after the race in Sepang.

if you like this tyre test racing, then you must clearly disagree with the drivers. Which is fine, if you enjoy it...fine.

[myurr]

Clearly you couldn't be bothered to read my post... But what exactly is your solution then? Super durable tyres so they don't have to stop any more? How does lining the drivers up in speed order and then letting them push from lights to flag produce great racing? What are you going to do about managing fuel, engines, gearboxes, and other long life parts on the cars to enable the drivers to push the whole time? How is DRS going to have any effect when the cars are already sorted into speed order?

[SilverArrow]

Clearly you couldn't be bothered to read my post... But what exactly is your solution then? Super durable tyres so they don't have to stop any more? How does lining the drivers up in speed order and then letting them push from lights to flag produce great racing? What are you going to do about managing fuel, engines, gearboxes, and other long life parts on the cars to enable the drivers to push the whole time? How is DRS going to have any effect when the cars are already sorted into speed order?

LOL what?

[Phillyred]

I think the solution is this- qualify on whatever tire you want and start the race on whatever tire you want, but obviously the rule still applies where you still need to use both compounds during the race.

[SilverArrow]

I think the solution is this- qualify on whatever tire you want and start the race on whatever tire you want, but obviously the rule still applies where you still need to use both compounds during the race.

Personally I think it's one of the most idiotic rules I've seen in any sport. There's a difference between regulating a team's equipment and dictating how they should run their race. It's like presenting a runner with two types of shoes and forcing them to use both during a race.

What the teams and drivers want is predictability. A set of tires that remains consistent - even if it's for as little as ten laps - would still produce excitement. What we don't want to see is a set of tires literally falling apart after one measly lap. Pirelli can keep saying that's what they've been asked to produce but the bottom line is their tires are trash, and no one can or should defend that.

[myurr]

LOL what?

Think about it logically as this has always been the conundrum with qualifying. For example imagine car 1, 2 and 3 are 1st, 2nd, and 3rd fastest and qualify in positions 1, 2, and 3. At the start then, barring incident, they'll pull away in positions 1, 2 and 3 in that order. All else being equal they'll stay in that order until the flag.

Take the difference between Ferrari's qualifying pace and race pace - if the tyres are eliminated as a variable then that change in pace will no longer occur. Where you qualify is where you, by rights, will run.

This is why when single lap qualifying was introduced it was run in reverse championship order, to try and mix the grid up just a little bit and stop the races being too sterile.

[Glyn]

Everyone needs to watch out for RAI tomorrow.

He set a very very quick stint in Practice which lasted for a lot of laps. I think it was the quickest / most consistent race pace out there.

[Jonnycraig]

. - one of the best races last year was the US Grand prix, because pirelli had brought conservative tyres, which allowed Hamilton to Push for the entire last stint and slowly slowly catch Vettel to pass. Thats how things...used to be. .

With all due respect, Vettel in a RB clearly slower in S1 was keeping Hamilton behind despite DRS and but for an HRT backing him right up to an undefendable position would've won the race.

Within the misty eyed reminiscing of Austin, the tedius low deg processions of Suzuka, Korea & India are forgotten.

[fiohaa]

. - one of the best races last year was the US Grand prix, because pirelli had brought conservative tyres, which allowed Hamilton to Push for the entire last stint and slowly slowly catch Vettel to pass. Thats how things...used to be. .

With all due respect, Vettel in a RB clearly slower in S1 was keeping Hamilton behind despite DRS and but for an HRT backing him right up to an undefendable position would've won the race.

Within the misty eyed reminiscing of Austin, the tedius low deg processions of Suzuka, Korea & India are forgotten.

rather have a procession of drivers pushing to their limits trying to catch and pass the driver infront,
than a procession of drivers driving at 8/10's (as quoted by webber), Not racing each other for fear of damaging tyres (as quoted by Webber), and simply waiting to see what happens.

i dont even know what you mean by procession to be honest. what do you want, nascar?
by its nature motorsport has processions of cars following each other.

at least in my procession, they are going as fast as possible, which as far i was aware, was what sprint motorsport was about.


Q: (Trent Price – Richland F1) Mark, obviously yesterday there were a lot of unknowns surrounding tyres going into this race but you’ve executed basically what was a perfect race in terms of the tyre management. That must give you some confidence for the rest of the year.

MW: Yeah, you’re right, going into the event we were pretty concerned. Some of our long runs before the Grand Prix itself were pretty poor but these guys are not resting on any laurels, particularly, again, our key beacon in Adrian Newey, Adrian is working hard. The thing is I think it’s quite good for the neutral, good for the fans and good for probably new people that are following Formula One, but the old – let’s say people who have more of a grasp of the sport and more education of where the sport was – it’s still a little bit hit and miss. With what we had, probably not much of an idea that’s how the race would go for us today. I was surprised that other people were not with us, completely, people won’t believe that but that’s the case, and also I think, for the junior categories they need to get the tyres and things better for young drivers to learn how to push the cars to the limit and drive absolutely on the edge. You watch Rafa Nadal and Roger Federer play each other and it’s playing with the lines, it’s playing with precision for a five set match and we all enjoy watching that but at the moment we’re driving at eight and a half tenths, eight tenths, conserving our pace and some more situations like this will probably happen in the future because there’s a lot of ambiguity in who’s (on the) pace and who’s quick. Seb feels he’s strong only in the middle of the race then I could respond. The racing is completely around nursing and trying to make the tyres survive and they’re not conducive to driving a car on the limit. You don’t see us really pushing on the limit. Obviously Seb and I had a push in the middle in our last stint but generally no drivers are really on the limit today. I don’t know if I answered your question but anyway, that’s my little rant.