2013 Monaco Grand Prix

[munudeges]

Mercedes say they had the permission of the FIA to participate. It is understood that their 2013 car was used and that the bulk of Pirelli's work focused on 2014 tyre development rather than on the Italian company's 2013 rubber...

Ross Brawn disagrees:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107697

"We know they have a new tyre for Canada, but we don't know which of the tyres they tested was the tyre that they are bringing along to Canada. The tyres they tested were anonymous. It is not possible for us to know, because the tyres just had codes on - tyre Code A, tyre Code B."

There is also no 2014 tyre development right now because Pirelli has no contract.

[beelsebob]

Again, if Kimi didn't suspect anything, he wouldn't have turned in early.

Nonsense. He didn't turn in early, but he was still entitled to do so on account of him being in front long before Perez outbraked himself.

Yes he did. Take a look at this...


At this point, Kimi is already moving across the track, and Perez is already along side. Notice the car just in the very bottom left of the frame though – they're currently turning in at the normal turn in point.

Kimi turned in several car lengths early to attempt to defend, and in doing so, rammed Perez into the wall.

[andartop]

Regardless whether or not Pirelli wants to use their reserve driver, it is completely allowed to use the team's driver. Certainly not the issue anymore.

The issue at hand is simply communication. Did Pirelli and Mercedes-AMG followed protocol?

Do not agree. You can't have at the same time a contract with Pirelli allowing them to test with current cars and drivers AND a sporting rule that prohibits in-season testing with current cars and drivers! Even if all the data are kept by Pirelli, you have two drivers on the grid, mathematically challenging for the championship, who got 1000Km (about 3 races' distance) more "practice" with their current race car, regardless of which tires they used. Furthermore, the car(s) used in testing can be taken to pieces back at the factory for reliability checks etc. I don't think Pirelli did anything wrong, I highly doubt Mercedes and their drivers had no benefit whatsoever from this test, and I would strongly suggest the rest of the Teams should accuse the FIA for bringing the sport into disrepute by allowing something that contravenes current regulations, if they indeed allowed it!

[Maxion]

Regardless whether or not Pirelli wants to use their reserve driver, it is completely allowed to use the team's driver. Certainly not the issue anymore.

The issue at hand is simply communication. Did Pirelli and Mercedes-AMG followed protocol?

Do not agree. You can't have at the same time a contract with Pirelli allowing them to test with current cars and drivers AND a sporting rule that prohibits in-season testing with current cars and drivers! Even if all the data are kept by Pirelli, you have two drivers on the grid, mathematically challenging for the championship, who got 1000Km (about 3 races' distance) more "practice" with their current race car, regardless of which tires they used. Furthermore, the car(s) used in testing can be taken to pieces back at the factory for reliability checks etc. I don't think Pirelli did anything wrong, I highly doubt Mercedes and their drivers had no benefit whatsoever from this test, and I would strongly suggest the rest of the Teams should accuse the FIA for bringing the sport into disrepute by allowing something that contravenes current regulations, if they indeed allowed it!

http://adamcooperf1.com/2013/05/26/sanc ... -confirms/

I suggest everyone read this.

The FIA certainly did not give permission in the way Merceded & Pirelli conducted the test. Mercedes are in preetty big trouble.

[beelsebob]

Again, if Kimi didn't suspect anything, he wouldn't have turned in early.

Nonsense. He didn't turn in early, but he was still entitled to do so on account of him being in front long before Perez outbraked himself.

Just for completeness, here's the same video a few frames later:

Frankly, if you still think that Kimi is on the same normal racing line that Hamilton is on, and has not turned in early, you need your eyes examined.

[zeph]

To me that looks like the one allowed defensive move....

[Overdriving]

Pirelli are in big trouble because they were told to offer the same opportunity to all teams--which was FIA's condition--and since Ferrari and Red Bull already claimed that they knew nothing about the tests, Merc and Pirelli's tests were illegal.
But Mercs might be able to claim that they knew nothing about that condition and about whether it was met, but it would be hard to prove as they mentioned nothing about the tests and were hush-hush about it until they were found out.

[beelsebob]

To me that looks like the one allowed defensive move....

Right, that's what it looks like to me too. Crucially, the rule about one allowed defensive move says that you must always leave room for the other car if they're along side you. i.e. you can't ram them into the wall.

[turbof1]

Do not agree. You can't have at the same time a contract with Pirelli allowing them to test with current cars and drivers AND a sporting rule that prohibits in-season testing with current cars and drivers!

The FIA implies the contract supercedes the rules in this case: if Pirelli offers it, a team can provide a 2013 car and any driver the team wants. The normal sporting rules are overwritten in this case.

I find the "extra mileage for drivers" really a non-argument. They could have spent that 1000km in a simulator too. The fact that they ran on a certain car-tyre combination they'll never run again on that particular circuit, tells enough that there is no advantage for the drivers at all. Let a monkey train a full day to make fire from scraping 2 firestones against eachother. At the end of the day, he will still not be able to use a cigaret lightener.

Again, the issue isn't so much anymore that Mercedes tested. FIA clearly indicates they are allowed to do so if they follow protocol.

[zeph]

To me that looks like the one allowed defensive move....

Right, that's what it looks like to me too. Crucially, the rule about one allowed defensive move says that you must always leave room for the other car if they're along side you. i.e. you can't ram them into the wall.

I'd have to say he didn't ram him into the wall. He just forced Perez to brake. That's what it looked like to me during the race, anyway.

And with the way Perez was all over the place today, I am inclined to apportion more of the blame on him.

[andartop]

It seems Kimi has the same view of the incident as I did, which explains why he did what he had to do:

"If he thinks it's my fault that he came into the corner too fast then he obviously has no idea what he's talking about.

"It's not the first time he's hit someone in the race. He seems to expect people to be always looking at what he might do, then move over or go straight on if he comes into the corner too quick and isn't going to make it without running into someone."

[turbof1]

To me that looks like the one allowed defensive move....

Right, that's what it looks like to me too. Crucially, the rule about one allowed defensive move says that you must always leave room for the other car if they're along side you. i.e. you can't ram them into the wall.

And with the way Perez was all over the place today, I am inclined to apportion more of the blame on him.

Which is wrong. All previous moves made by Perez have absolutely nothing to do with the Raikkonen-Perez situation. Everything outside that little space of time is irrelevant.

[munudeges]

Right, that's what it looks like to me too. Crucially, the rule about one allowed defensive move says that you must always leave room for the other car if they're along side you. i.e. you can't ram them into the wall.

The only reason Perez ends up being there is he has completely outbraked himself from a long, long way back. When Raikkonen positions himself in the braking zone Perez is nowhere near.

Like I said, you can't outbrake yourself and hit other cars. That's exactly what Perez is doing there. [...]

[beelsebob]

Right, that's what it looks like to me too. Crucially, the rule about one allowed defensive move says that you must always leave room for the other car if they're along side you. i.e. you can't ram them into the wall.

The only reason Perez ends up being there is he has completely outbraked himself from a long, long way back. When Raikkonen positions himself in the braking zone Perez is nowhere near.

Again, I fundamentally disagree that Perez has outbraked himself. If he had outbraked himself, there would be locked wheels, smoke, a lose back end, and Raikkonen calmly letting him sail right on by and miss the corner.

None of these things happened.

Perez had not outbraked himself, Raikkonnen knew this, and moved to defend his position. In making that move, he did not leave enough space.

[zeph]

And with the way Perez was all over the place today, I am inclined to apportion more of the blame on him.

Which is wrong. All previous moves made by Perez have absolutely nothing to do with the Raikkonen-Perez situation. Everything outside that little space of time is irrelevant.

Not really. Perez may think he drove a great race, but to me he seemed out of control and desperate all the time. I was waiting for him to wreck something, seriously. And he did.