2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
garrett
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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The turbine shafts will probably have to be larger then normal to run closer to "Shaft Critical Speed" that these turbos will be running at to maintain the high load for efficiency the MGUH will require.
I wasn´t told the details, but the turbines they used at first were simply overchallenged with their monumentous task. So you are right with your assumption. But I don´t think the picture shows the turbocharger we will see in 2014.

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WhiteBlue
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The teams want this kind of cost control where the number of bought in components are limited and have to have a long design life. It is in their own interest. Motor sport always had failures and DNFs have gone artificially down in the last five years due to the engine freeze. I don't mind if some of this comes back if we get some meaningful development.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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Paul
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He doesn't say it is against the interests of his team though, does he? He sure will be hoping new Mercedes drive-train will help them leapfrog teams using different drive-trains, and so will other teams. Red Bull might be most nervous, but then again adapting to changes in regulations seems to be one of their strongest points, so they will be hoping to produce the best integration of drive-train into the chassis, even if Renault isn't the strongest package on its own...

xpensive
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wuzak
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Holm86 wrote:
SectorOne wrote:How many build their own gearbox?

Ferrari, Red Bull, Mercedes, Mclaren? Or do they use Xtrac?
They all build their own. And Williams does as well. Don't know about Lotus but I also think they build their own. There's only Caterham, Marussia and possible Force India who doesn't build their own boxes.
Ferrari supply the gearbox to both Sauber and STR. RBR supplies a gearbox to Caterham. Not sure who Marussia use, since they are the only ones with the Cossie. Maybe still X-Trac?

FI get theirs from McLaren, as well as KERS at present.

RBR will, no doubt, supply gearboxes to STR next year, as STR will use the Renault engine.

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WhiteBlue
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xpensive wrote:In 1985 when Nelson had 1300-1400 Hp in quali, the torque entering the gearbox could hit 1000 Nm, but I have heard that this gearbox came from an old 1943 BMW tank prototype, when the company tried desperately to compete with the PanzerVI.
Isn't that true WB?
I have no earthly idea. I did a lot of reading on the BMW turbo project and some of it written by Rosche himself but I have never come across that bit. But 1000 Nm at the time must have been very unusual in a racing machine.
BMW designed a tank hunter prototype "Rutscher" in 1943-45 with a 3.5 L I6 engine and an Allklauen ZF 5-25 gearbox. The vehicle had a weight of 38 tons. They also build armored 7 series cars for the Bavarian politician Franz Josef Strauss in 1978 who was defense minister in the sixties and later Bavarian Minister President. That project probably needed a 700 Nm gearbox. I have been unable to verify the use of any of that technology in F1.
Last edited by WhiteBlue on 17 Jul 2013, 05:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Clew
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MOWOG wrote: "We will go back to a time such as 20 years ago," Mercedes team boss Brawn is quoted by Auto Motor und Sport. "The technology is so complex that I expect a lot of failures. So there will be a new element of surprise," he predicted.
Well....hopefully technology analytic's has improved over the past 20 years.
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xpensive
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WhiteBlue
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The Procar also had a I6 turbo with a ZF 5 speed gearbox. So it's possible that the origins of the gearbox development were indeed in the "Rutscher" project. But I'm sure it was heavily modified by then.
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xpensive
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Chuckjr
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WhiteBlue wrote:
xpensive wrote:In 1985 when Nelson had 1300-1400 Hp in quali, the torque entering the gearbox could hit 1000 Nm, but I have heard that this gearbox came from an old 1943 BMW tank prototype, when the company tried desperately to compete with the PanzerVI. Isn't that true WB?
BMW designed a tank hunter prototype "Rutscher" in 1943-45 with a 3.5 L I6 engine and an Allklauen ZF 5-25 gearbox. The vehicle had a weight of 38 tons.
I'm thinking 38 tons might be heavy for an F1 car. LOL. :lol:

The idea that engine blow ups will become more commonplace I completely welcome. I miss the days when there was absolutely ZERO guarantee any car on the grid would finish. I know that still the case, but wow, engine blow ups are rare these days. These dramatic changes will bring luck/chance and drivers care/awareness directly into the fore again which, imo, will only improve the show. Canada 1991 comes to mind...

I really am excited about these huge changes. This thread has done a great job elucidating the weight of what is coming in 2014. =D>
Watching F1 since 1986.

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djos
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I wish the FiA had have set an rpm limit of 12k, no boost limit, no fuel flow limit but imposed a fuel tank limit - then we'd see engines on the ragged edge again and lots of nice spectacular engine blowups again!
"In downforce we trust"

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WhiteBlue
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xpensive wrote:But that Procar 24-valver was never turboed, still had 450 Hp, right?
The group 4 version was naturally aspired but the group 5 version had bi turbo. The late M1s were assembled at Ron Dennis' Project 4 factory in England. The late turbo version used in America was topping 800 bhp reportedly.
Last edited by WhiteBlue on 17 Jul 2013, 12:07, edited 1 time in total.
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autogyro
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The stepped ratio layshaft gearbox will prove to be the weak link in next years F1 formula.

wuzak
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WhiteBlue wrote:I have no earthly idea. I did a lot of reading on the BMW turbo project and some of it written by Rosche himself but I have never come across that bit. But 1000 Nm at the time must have been very unusual in a racing machine.
Porsche 917/30 - 1,100hp @ 7,800rpm, 1,112Nm @ 6,400rpm.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/spec/422 ... 17-30.html

So BMW weren't the only ones that faced the issue of monster torque.

Benetton B186

BMW M12/13

900hp @ 11,000rpm.
1,066NM @ 8,500rpm.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/spec/687 ... 6-BMW.html
Last edited by wuzak on 17 Jul 2013, 23:40, edited 1 time in total.