2014 Engine yin yang

[Andres125sx]

So the German press claims that the German engine that hasn't quite been shown in public has muuuuch more power then the non german engines that nobody has seen.
Now the Italian press claims that the unseen Italian engine is muuuuuch lighter than the other engines that they haven't gotten access to to compare.
One can only assume tomorrow the French press will happily declare that the unseen French engine uses muuuuch less fuel than the opposition they don't have access to.
And this is even before any of those engines is quite finished and tuned.

Gentlemen, restraint and common sense, please!

=D>

And you hit the nail, now the french say they use so little fuel they want to increase the rpm


It´s funny to see this marketing war, but it´s first test what will say first things, everything before that is just marketing....

[trinidefender]

http://www.espnf1.com/blogs/motorsport/ ... 35869.html

Why the hell do Renault want the revs increased? That doesn't make much sense to me within the regs.

Believe me, just the usual smoke and mirrors, the kind of trickery today's Formula 1 journos simply don't grasp.

In particular the speculation over engine failures next year, when these ICE's will probably be the least stressed ever,
580 Hp from a 1.6 liter turbo at 10 000 to 12 000 rpm is nothing compared to the 80s, let alone the 20k V8s of 2006.

With modern material-, coating- and lubrication-technology, the 2014 ICE's will last forever.

The MGU-X systems is another matter however, but you can finish the races without those.

You are talking about these engines being much higher stressed. However there is one crucial difference between those engines then and these now. The air fuel ratios that they run. With those old engines fuel use wasn't critical so if they had heat or lubrication problems in the cylinder then they simply pumped in more fuel which pushed up the A/F ratio. This had the effect of lubricating the cylinder walls and also cooling the cylinder, head and piston down immensely. Even many modern road cars that pass emissions tests run slightly rich at full throttle for added cooling and detonation resistance. This simply won't be available to next seasons engines.

[Holm86]

http://www.espnf1.com/blogs/motorsport/ ... 35869.html

Why the hell do Renault want the revs increased? That doesn't make much sense to me within the regs.

Believe me, just the usual smoke and mirrors, the kind of trickery today's Formula 1 journos simply don't grasp.

In particular the speculation over engine failures next year, when these ICE's will probably be the least stressed ever,
580 Hp from a 1.6 liter turbo at 10 000 to 12 000 rpm is nothing compared to the 80s, let alone the 20k V8s of 2006.

With modern material-, coating- and lubrication-technology, the 2014 ICE's will last forever.

The MGU-X systems is another matter however, but you can finish the races without those.

You are talking about these engines being much higher stressed. However there is one crucial difference between those engines then and these now. The air fuel ratios that they run. With those old engines fuel use wasn't critical so if they had heat or lubrication problems in the cylinder then they simply pumped in more fuel which pushed up the A/F ratio. This had the effect of lubricating the cylinder walls and also cooling the cylinder, head and piston down immensely. Even many modern road cars that pass emissions tests run slightly rich at full throttle for added cooling and detonation resistance. This simply won't be available to next seasons engines.

You are fully able to run rich next year. You say that they just added more fuel to run richer. Now they will just add less air (less boost) if they want to run richer.

[dren]

I don't see any ICE failures unless someone gambles too much on the cooling package requirements. The same with the electrical side of things, too.

[Holm86]

So the German press claims that the German engine that hasn't quite been shown in public has muuuuch more power then the non german engines that nobody has seen.
Now the Italian press claims that the unseen Italian engine is muuuuuch lighter than the other engines that they haven't gotten access to to compare.
One can only assume tomorrow the French press will happily declare that the unseen French engine uses muuuuch less fuel than the opposition they don't have access to.
And this is even before any of those engines is quite finished and tuned.

Gentlemen, restraint and common sense, please!

=D>

And you hit the nail, now the french say they use so little fuel they want to increase the rpm


It´s funny to see this marketing war, but it´s first test what will say first things, everything before that is just marketing....

What is your source? And how on earth would increasing RPM use more fuel? It would only create less power with the same amount of fuel.

[trinidefender]

You are fully able to run rich next year. You say that they just added more fuel to run richer. Now they will just add less air (less boost) if they want to run richer.

Yes but by doing that you will be either cutting power drastically or reducing fuel consumption, something no team wants. This means all teams will be pushing engine manufacturers to make engines that don't run rich except in absolute extreme cases vs old engines that ran rich as soon as full throttle was used

*edit* that is supposed to say increasing fuel consumption not reducing

[dren]

They will make most efficient use of the fuel given since it is restricted, right? Unless somehow cooling requirements are severely lessened and the aero benefit outweighs power reduction?

[Holm86]

Weather the mixture is lean or rich it still holds the same calorific value. So it will make the same amount of power. It doesn't have to run stoichiometric. And definitely not lean as that would only increase heat.

[Tommy Cookers]

a rich mixture will produce less power in a fuel limited formula
because with a rich mixture some of the fuel is not burnt
because there is not enough air to burn all the fuel - that's what rich means
(and the rules say that air can't be added after the mixture has been through the cylinder, to prevent gas-turbinitis)

I'm sorry if this point is too serious for this thread !

[Cold Fussion]

http://www.espnf1.com/blogs/motorsport/ ... 35869.html
The MGU-X systems is another matter however, but you can finish the races without those.

You're not going to finish well being 160hp down for ~50-80% of the full throttle sections of the lap.

[xpensive]

Yeah no more throw away batteries. Grid penalty for that now.

Are you really certain about this, batteries are kind of a consumable, if you charge/discharge 6 times per lap, 150 laps per race weekend for 5 races, that's 4500 cycles?

In all honesty, I find it difficult to believe that those batteries will last that long.

Sorry to quote myself, but does anyone have info on how the batteries' capacity will taper-off with charging and discharge,
almost 1000 next to emptying cycles per race-weekend is quite a lot, isn't it?

[Abarth]

Weather the mixture is lean or rich it still holds the same calorific value. So it will make the same amount of power. It doesn't have to run stoichiometric. And definitely not lean as that would only increase heat.

[rjsa]

Now this chart assumes fixed air or fuel amount?

[wuzak]

Now this chart assumes fixed air or fuel amount?

Neither.

It should work for either fuel or air being fixed.

[CBeck113]

Neither rjsa, lamda is the air/fuel ratio.