Machined Merge Collectors

[hardingfv32]

I found this source of CNC machined merge collectors. Has anyone notice something like this in use in F1 last year? I think I remember seeing Mercedes with a collector that did not seem to have any fabrication welds. At the time I thought it might have been some kind of insulation coating. Maybe it was an example of a machined collector.

http://elmtech.eu/en/racing/merge-collectors

Brian

[Jersey Tom]

Wow. That's wild. Just off the cuff here.. aside from maybe some very specific circumstances I think I'd much prefer using a welded collector. Bound to be lighter (or at least no heavier) and probably way cheaper.

[neilbah]

with the lathes theyre using this is probably more accurate though. I guess there must be limits to the complexity of shapes... I was also just checking out racecar engineering article on 3d printed manifolds and im wondering if theres much future for this technique.

[Lycoming]

Sure it's more accurate, but how accurate do you need to be? 3D printing is similar in terms of time and cost, though with not as nice of a surface finish. The advantage there is more in terms of options in geometry. Though, I think by welding together bent tubes, you can achieve pretty much any geometry you could ever want for merge collectors.

[Jersey Tom]

From first hand experience, I feel like trying to machine a thin wall billet structure like that... is either going to be outrageously expensive (spending more time doing operations delicately and/or with very expensive HSM equipment) or you start to compromise on things. Thin wall pieces with long tool reach screams of chatter and poor surface finish to me. Or you compromise and make it a thicker and heavier piece.

I dunno. My intuition is this would be a very tough sell over what's probably a more cost effective, probably lighter, and [performance wise] just as good welded option.

Reality of fabrication is some things are better suited to milling from billet, some things are better suited to tube bending (including CNC), to welding, to casting, etc.

[Lycoming]

From first hand experience, I feel like trying to machine a thin wall billet structure like that... is either going to be outrageously expensive (spending more time doing operations delicately and/or with very expensive HSM equipment) or you start to compromise on things. Thin wall pieces with long tool reach screams of chatter and poor surface finish to me.

EDM?

[riff_raff]

I would agree with JT. It would be very difficult and costly to CNC an Inconel collector with a 0.5mm wall thickness, and it would not be possible to make one using DLMS. The only current practical method is TIG welding tubes.

[hardingfv32]

The collector I saw was on the Williams but it does not look like it was machined. Seems to be a formed type of collector which would seem odd. Maybe it is some kind of twin wall construction.

http://i.imgur.com/7kY7I1T.jpg

Brian

[thisisatest]

hydroforming?

obviously this is not a collector, but just an example of what hydroforming can do.


source:http://www.ultimatehydroforming.com/hydroforming.htm#1

[Lycoming]

Possible, though I wonder about the tooling costs involved and whether or not it's really practical economically for such a low volume.

[PhillipM]

You can hydroform at home with a pressure washer, tooling ain't that bad for hydroforming

[riff_raff]

Looking at the stretch marks on that part in the image, it looks like it could have been hydroformed. Hydroforming can be fairly economical, since it only requires a single tool. And the form tool for a thin sheet metal part can be made from a re-useable material like kirksite.

[les arcs]

The Williams uses 4 inconel pressings welded to a inconel machined piece at the primary end.

It is very tasty.