whats wrong with the renault engines?

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turbof1
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Ferrari and especially mercedes will veto this. Even if they are also allowed to further develop their engines. They currently have a huge advantage on renault and will not to risk loosing even a bit of that on renault through another development race.

The biggest reason why renault is asking this and not just asking modification permission based on reliability, is that then they don't have to send the details of those modification to the other engine manufacturers.

Renault will be forced to apply for an excemption on the homologation, and that means ferrari and mercedes get to see sensitive data and information on the renault engine.
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Shakeman
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Holm86 wrote:
Exactly. Mercedes and Ferrari would get more time to refine their own units. And seriously what is competetion without competitors?? I hope no one will veto this.
What's the point of competition without rules or rules that can be freely bent?

Renault knew the date of the homologation and so did the teams that chose Renault power.

Ferrari and Merc would be stupid not to veto any extension. F1 won't suffer with the depth of talent currently in F1 driving Merc and Ferrari powered cars so what if RB and Vettel is relegated to the midfield. It's swings and roundabouts RB benefited from a change in the F1 rules which knocked Ferrari and McLaren off their perches now that appears to have happened to them. It's all part of what makes F1 the circus, soap opera and sport we enjoy. RB and Renault will come again.

rjsa
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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LOL, RBR was pretty much running alone in the name your diffuser era and seemed alright with it. Their ball fell on a green 00 now, tough luck.

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SectorOne
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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He said Renault’s troubled ‘power unit’ means that Red Bull is often missing 165 horse power to the leading Mercedes, “which is about 30km/h on the straights!

“That’s why we have sent a taskforce to France,” revealed Marko, referring to Renault’s Viry headquarters. ”Our people have just helped Renault write a new software programme.”



http://grandprix247.com/2014/02/28/red- ... straights/
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Jef Patat
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Concerning the vetoing, is this correct?

From BBC F1 live feed:
"Renault had indicated on Thursday that they were not worried about the deadline, but it seems they were being a bit disingenuous, as Auto Motor Und Sport are reporting it was the French company that asked for the extension. It could well pass, given the way voting works in the strategy group. Bernie Ecclestone and FIA president Jean Todt have six votes each, the six teams involved one each. Votes pass by a simple majority. So if Ecclestone and Todt think it's a good idea - for whatever reason - then it doesn't matter what the teams, who include Mercedes, McLaren and Ferrari, vote."

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Holm86
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Shakeman wrote:
Holm86 wrote:
Exactly. Mercedes and Ferrari would get more time to refine their own units. And seriously what is competetion without competitors?? I hope no one will veto this.
What's the point of competition without rules or rules that can be freely bent?

Renault knew the date of the homologation and so did the teams that chose Renault power.

Ferrari and Merc would be stupid not to veto any extension. F1 won't suffer with the depth of talent currently in F1 driving Merc and Ferrari powered cars so what if RB and Vettel is relegated to the midfield. It's swings and roundabouts RB benefited from a change in the F1 rules which knocked Ferrari and McLaren off their perches now that appears to have happened to them. It's all part of what makes F1 the circus, soap opera and sport we enjoy. RB and Renault will come again.
I can only say that I don't agree. I like the F1 field to be at it's strongest. And I don't see how I is competition without rules?? It's just a deadline being postponed. And it would be just the same for Mercedes and Ferrari. Im sure they could get something out of an extra couple of month to develop their engines. I don't really care about the Renault being low on power. To me its all about the reliability. Its just not fun to see racing where all Renault powered teams is DNF race after race.

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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Holm86 wrote:To me its all about the reliability. Its just not fun to see racing where all Renault powered teams is DNF race after race.
But there's a separate provision form them to ask for a reliability exception, but they don't want to do that because they'd have to give that info over to Ferrari and Mercedes.

Shakeman
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Holm86 wrote:
I can only say that I don't agree. I like the F1 field to be at it's strongest. And I don't see how I is competition without rules?? It's just a deadline being postponed. And it would be just the same for Mercedes and Ferrari. Im sure they could get something out of an extra couple of month to develop their engines. I don't really care about the Renault being low on power. To me its all about the reliability. Its just not fun to see racing where all Renault powered teams is DNF race after race.
Sure.

I expect Merc and Ferrari will come under intense pressure not to veto by the FIA. But the stakes are enormous especially for Merc who've been running around mid filed for years on the back foot and now they've got off on the right foot they're expected to open the goal up again to their arch rival RB?

I'm an F1 fan and these changes of pecking order are what makes the sport interesting because it's so much more than cars going round a track.

What happens when we get to the end of 3 months and Renault are still floundering, extend it again and hope the double points races come to Renault powered cars aid? If enough pressure can be exerted for Merc and Ferrari not to veto now then it could be done again. Either they homologate now or they do away with it altogether which would seem a fairer policy given there is another engine manufacturer waiting in the wings not subject to it.

If you're a RB fan then it must be frustrating but probably not as frustrating as being a McLaren or Merc fan in recent times.

Love F1.

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Holm86
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Shakeman wrote:
Holm86 wrote:
I can only say that I don't agree. I like the F1 field to be at it's strongest. And I don't see how I is competition without rules?? It's just a deadline being postponed. And it would be just the same for Mercedes and Ferrari. Im sure they could get something out of an extra couple of month to develop their engines. I don't really care about the Renault being low on power. To me its all about the reliability. Its just not fun to see racing where all Renault powered teams is DNF race after race.
Sure.

I expect Merc and Ferrari will come under intense pressure not to veto by the FIA. But the stakes are enormous especially for Merc who've been running around mid filed for years on the back foot and now they've got off on the right foot they're expected to open the goal up again to their arch rival RB?

I'm an F1 fan and these changes of pecking order are what makes the sport interesting because it's so much more than cars going round a track.

What happens when we get to the end of 3 months and Renault are still floundering, extend it again and hope the double points races come to Renault powered cars aid? If enough pressure can be exerted for Merc and Ferrari not to veto now then it could be done again. Either they homologate now or they do away with it altogether which would seem a fairer policy given there is another engine manufacturer waiting in the wings not subject to it.

If you're a RB fan then it must be frustrating but probably not as frustrating as being a McLaren or Merc fan in recent times.

Love F1.
I agree with your point of removing the homologation all together. That is also way more interesting for us enginephiles.

And I am definitely not a RedBull fan. My team Is and has all ways been McLaren. And of course I would love to see them win the championship again but not on a cheap background.

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turbof1
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Holm86 wrote:
I agree with your point of removing the homologation all together. That is also way more interesting for us enginephiles.

And I am definitely not a RedBull fan. My team Is and has all ways been McLaren. And of course I would love to see them win the championship again but not on a cheap background.
I don't feel like it's cheap. The engine manufacturers knew the change years before it got implemented. They did have time to properly develop and test the engine. They even postponed it with one year. Now it turns out Renault did a crappy job, saying that "the individual part works fine, it's just that in conjunction the parts show issues... along with glitchy software.". several months ago I believe they were the first to publicly show the engine. Maybe they should have put the money of the launch into, I don't know, maybe testing the fully fitted engine and hire some more IT personnel?

Ferrari and Mercedes did their homework. Renault didn't. If mclaren wins from all the teams that have working engines, then that's neither cheap towards Renault nor to the general picture.

Sure, everybody makes mistakes. The world would rather be boring if nobody didn't, and the FIA provides the regulatory means for such cases to correct the problem. But Renault currently comes over like "nah, we don't feel like asking publicly permission which could hurt our company image and gives away vital info to the competition. How about we ignore the rules for 3 months?".
#AeroFrodo

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DAMNINice
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Holm86 wrote:
Shakeman wrote:
Holm86 wrote:
I can only say that I don't agree. I like the F1 field to be at it's strongest. And I don't see how I is competition without rules?? It's just a deadline being postponed. And it would be just the same for Mercedes and Ferrari. Im sure they could get something out of an extra couple of month to develop their engines. I don't really care about the Renault being low on power. To me its all about the reliability. Its just not fun to see racing where all Renault powered teams is DNF race after race.
Sure.

I expect Merc and Ferrari will come under intense pressure not to veto by the FIA. But the stakes are enormous especially for Merc who've been running around mid filed for years on the back foot and now they've got off on the right foot they're expected to open the goal up again to their arch rival RB?

I'm an F1 fan and these changes of pecking order are what makes the sport interesting because it's so much more than cars going round a track.

What happens when we get to the end of 3 months and Renault are still floundering, extend it again and hope the double points races come to Renault powered cars aid? If enough pressure can be exerted for Merc and Ferrari not to veto now then it could be done again. Either they homologate now or they do away with it altogether which would seem a fairer policy given there is another engine manufacturer waiting in the wings not subject to it.

If you're a RB fan then it must be frustrating but probably not as frustrating as being a McLaren or Merc fan in recent times.

Love F1.
I agree with your point of removing the homologation all together. That is also way more interesting for us enginephiles.

And I am definitely not a RedBull fan. My team Is and has all ways been McLaren. And of course I would love to see them win the championship again but not on a cheap background.
On which cheap background?
That Mercedes did a better job than Renault?
I think thats what it´s all about in a competition.

Also having the homologation now doesen´t mean that the teams are not allowed to change anything.
if the deadline is today and Renault wants to change something in a month (yes, you will see the Renault teams DNF race after race so or so when they have a problem until they sorted it out.) then they can do so.
the difference is that they have to show the facts and this could be very delicate informations..

But well. Again. thats why it is a competition.

And I don´t think that using no deadline for homologation at all would help. They did that to reduce costs and I think that it is the correct thing to do (We won´t discuss how stupid it is to change to V6 Turbos in terms of costs, I hope! :? )
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turbof1
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Well, autosport confirms it's on the table:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112703
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gandharva
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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AMUS reports that Renault officially denied rumors about extension of engine homologation.

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iotar__
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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gandharva wrote:AMUS reports that Renault officially denied rumors about extension of engine homologation.
This one didn't last long. Amus reported something that wasn't true? (technically or in essence)

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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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In that Autosport article it is said that during the engine freeze, 95% of all engine parts were revised. Could anyone explain to me how this was possible? I thought that while the engine was homologated, all engines had to be same to reference unit.