Red Bull exceed fuel flow limit, Ricciardo DSQ at Australian GP

[nace84]

The 100kg/hr is the maximum amount, but you can't race 100% all the time. while braking you have maybe 5kg/hr...so at the end it all works out in average consumption

[mnmracer]

You're allowed to travel 100 miles on a highway.
You're not allowed to travel 100 miles per hour on a highway.

[dave34m]

You have to make a distinction between the2:
-The fuel rate applies at any given moment: so you aren't allowed during a given time moment A to spend more fuel then 100kg/h, 1,66kg/m, 27.778g/s,... .
-On top of that, you aren't allowed to spend more then 100kg of during an entire race (start to chequered flag).

What does that mean? Well the first is better to be looked at as the peak fuel consumption rate. It is expressed in kg/h, but isn't about what you are allowed to spend in a hour, but a fuel rate you are never allowed to go above. It might be a bit clearer if you take as grams per second. It's still the same rate though.
The second is your maximum consumption from the start of the race (the moment the green lights turn on) to the crossing of the chequered flag. So it doesn't matter if the race is a hour, 1.5 hours, 2 hours,... . You have 100kg to do that. Do note this does not include installation laps, formation lap, in lap after crossing the flag and fuel sample.

So they are carrying more than 100kg of fuel when they leave the pits, roughly how much would they need to carry?

[Sevach]

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 00988.html

http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/Merc ... 73890.html
FIA always so well prepared to regulate F1.

[thomin]

How can red bull get away with anything. Whatever the circumstances, if they gained a performance advantage by going over the agreed limit, then they have to be sanctioned.

The fuel flow sensors are double checked with the fuel consumption calculated by the McLaren standard ECU because the standard ECU still is more precise than the fuel flow sensor. This was announced before the race.

I have another question, Adam Cooper has said that the teams were told the only mitigating circumstances for violating this rule was a faulty FIA sensor.

Am I right when it seems that Red Bull changed the sensor in Parc Ferme this weekend?

Let me know because if so and that is the case, i consider that highly suspect that a team would do that, almost as if they were planning to exceed the limit and then use the faulty sensor arguement as a backup.

I dont know if this is the case....just going on some chatter online?

https://twitter.com/nh247/status/445147201879429120

[feni_remmen]

I guess they are currently aurguing that 100kg/hour is not the same as 50 kg/30 minutes... Different to 25 kg/15 minutes too... 1.67 kg /minute anybody?

[tim|away]

I guess they are currently aurguing that 100kg/hour is not the same as 50 kg/30 minutes... Different to 25 kg/15 minutes too... 1.67 kg /minute anybody?

How would that not be the same?

[pyrosian]

If you used 100kg in 30 mins and nothing for the next 30mins your fuel flow is 100kg an hour is it not?

[SidSidney]

https://twitter.com/nh247/status/445147201879429120

I posted this info 4 minutes before this tweet, top of last page. Hi Nick!

[henra]

I guess they are currently aurguing that 100kg/hour is not the same as 50 kg/30 minutes... Different to 25 kg/15 minutes too... 1.67 kg /minute anybody?

No, if I understood it correctly the problem is that the flow meter sets a flag if the flow exceeds the allowed value for 1/10 second.
It appeared some teams had fluctuations in the fuel flow that would set off the flag. The real (average) fuel flow could well be within the legal range but you would get a frequent flow of 'flags' signalling exceeding of allwoed fuel flow.
The FIA aopparently has consequently increased the measuring interval to 0.2s to reduce susceptibility to these fluctuations and at the same time asked the Engine suplliers to adapt their Software accordingly.
That's where obviously something went wrong with the Renault engines of both RB cars.
In the case of Vettels car it seems the PU 'protested' the new software completely by not delivering any meaningfull power. Ricciardo appears to have been struck more subtlely.
It seems to ne Renault is still on thin ice, software wise.

[NTS]

If you used 100kg in 30 mins and nothing for the next 30mins your fuel flow is 100kg an hour is it not?

The rules are written as to not allow a fuel flow of over 100kg/h at any given time, so it's specified as "in every instant", not "30 minutes over and then 30 minutes under". However since in practical terms you cannot measure "in every instant" they have decided to use a certain sampling frequency. On the previous page someone mentioned it is 5 readings / second. So basically the practical fuel-flow limit is 5.56 gram/ 0.2 sec, since that's the window they are policing.

[Sevach]

If you used 100kg in 30 mins and nothing for the next 30mins your fuel flow is 100kg an hour is it not?

Rules dictate 100kg/h as maximum rate of fuel flow, you can't go over that not even for a second (at least you are not suppoused to), doesn't matter if you ran with less than that the rest of the time.

RBR probably ran a significant portion of the race under 100kg/h.

[dave34m]

If you used 100kg in 30 mins and nothing for the next 30mins your fuel flow is 100kg an hour is it not?

If you did 100mph for 5 minutes and stopped for 5 minutes would that reduce you maximum speed to 50mph

[tim|away]

If you used 100kg in 30 mins and nothing for the next 30mins your fuel flow is 100kg an hour is it not?

The rules are written as to not allow a fuel flow of over 100kg/h at any given time, so it's specified as "in every instant", not "30 minutes over and then 30 minutes under". However since in practical terms you cannot measure "in every instant" they have decided to use a certain sampling frequency. On the previous page someone mentioned it is 5 readings / second. So basically the practical fuel-flow limit is 5.56 gram/ 0.2 sec, since that's the window they are policing.

Where did you get that?

The official article is:
5.1.4 Fuel mass flow must not exceed 100kg/h.

[Bomber_Pilot]

You have 100kg of fuel available to you. You have a MAX, not average fuel flow rate of 100l/h. That means you can run at max ffr for one hour and finish the race parked at the side of the track, or you destribute the fuel throuought the race. So... if you don't need the power you tune the ffr down a bit and if you need it you go at higher ffr. But i doubt that there is a chance of exploiting a ffr of 100l/h for a "longish" period of time. With five laps to go, Magnussen was told to save some fuel and then use fuel rate number three to try get past Ricciardo on the final two laps. Brundle then explained, that Mclaren have a range from one to twelve, with one being the highest and twelve the lowest.