Chen Engine, a more efficient and cleaner engine

[WALL_ZACK]

I think that the issue here is not so much that anyone disagrees with the principle of a more efficient engine. What you are hoping to do is laudable. I think a quote from every maths and statistics teacher I've ever had sums up the general level of scepticism: "show your work"... that is, don't just give us your results, show us how you got there.

You don't need to give us pages of calculations. If you want a constructive discussion, your claims of a 25% efficiency gain need to be backed up by some validated (i.e. published by someone else preferably in a scientific or trade journal) numbers like:
- the residual exhaust gasses that are leading to incomplete combustion at idle/low revs in the average engine (pick one injection, aspiration and displacement type and do all calculations on that basis)
- the proportion of incomplete combustion at the engine speeds you're talking about for your exemplar engine (puts a limit on what gain you can achieve)
- the pressure the compressor will have to work against at TDC to purge residual gasses
- actual fuel use numbers for your exemplar engine at idle and at city driving speeds
- actual CO2, CO, N2 etc for your exemplar engine at idle and speed

From numbers like these (and I'm sure there are more to consider), you can give us calculations to back up you efficiency gain claims. If you can't produce these numbers to back up some pretty extraordinary claims, very few people will take you and your system seriously.

[Chengine]

It not as if I did not tried to get a Chen engine C prototype built. I tried to get the Honda 4 valves head inside profiled. The parts sat there for three month and with no data and I still have to pay 50%. I got frustrated.

I see a few paths. The first is theoretical. Do you agree that if my idling performance is 50%, then my city gas improvement is 25% as I calculated in last couple of post. And if I can theoretically prove to you that engine at idle will have 50% gas saving. If this fundamental calculation will satisfy you then I'll do it. In any case, I need to do this.

I really think the above two calculation should be enough. one is done on the post already.

Regards,

Chengine

[flynfrog]

You have yet to show a normal ICE engine has an issue at idle. You really don't even have grasp of the theory of how your engine is going to fix a problem you cant show exists. You seem to lack a basic understanding of the basic Physics of how a simple ICE functions. You have no idea how much fuel any vehicle uses at any point of operating range. You have some made up BS numbers. Not to cherry pick but a gallon of fuel to start a 6l truck motor comes to mind. You cant tell us the amount of air you need or how running a compressor is going to result in a net gain at idle. Now you want use to agree that a 50% reduction in idle consumption will lead to 25% reduction in city driving when you have no idea of the loads applied and the percentage in a normal city driving cycle. You should really save yourself the embarrassment and not make another post until you have any evidence at all.

[Chengine]

Hello All,

I applied the internal combustion engine efficiency formula for engine with waste gas and without waste gas. The improvement is much smaller than I hoped. But the improvement is still 20%. Now we can go back and plug into efficiency into City gas milage improvement.

The efficiency decreases with higher compression ratio, meaning at high load the gain is power and efficiency is less. The idling efficiency gain decreases quickly as load increases.

Since the idling efficiency drops, thus city mpg as I estimated before assuming 50% efficiency is incorrect. It is more like 10% increase in City MPG for Chen engine. I am disappointed. But I can defend this number.

As to the pressure of exhaust gas, it is at one ATM, thus low pressure(3-5 atm) air compressor is sufficient. The compressor should be shut off when the engine is at high load, as the gain in efficiency can not compensate for power expanded for compressor.

Chengine

[Chengine]

After calculating efficiency using standard text book formula and got 20% efficiency. I have doubts about its applicability.
My entire these of this Chen engine is that combustion burns hotter without residual gas. This fact was never mentioned in engine text book. I need to experimentally determine the efficiency improvement.

Bottom line, there is no theory on Chen engine.

Chengine

[Jef Patat]

We have been busy improving what we eat, that is input. But we have neglected what we put out ...

I can assure you I pay very close attention to that part as well

If you are so convinced of the concept. Can't you try to find some business angels, go for crowd funding, ... Surely in Silicon Valley that can't be that hard?

[tathan]

Simple questions:

What affect do you think residual gasses have exactly? Why do you think removing them will be better? I'm not saying it wont be better, I just want to hear your reasons.



Playing devil's advocate:

Residual gasses 'waste' about 10% of the cylinder filling with gas that can't combust. The car injects the correct amount of fuel to get near stoich, taking this waste into account (through mapping, lambda feedback etc).

If you remove this 'waste' gas and replace with clean air, you're essentially increasing the amount of petrol that has to be injected for proper combustion (because there's now more oxygen in there), in effect making a bigger cylinder that will produce more power. So you have to throttle the amount of air further to bring the power back down, and to 'make' the car inject less fuel. Where does the efficiency gain come from?

[tathan]

My entire these of this Chen engine is that combustion burns hotter without residual gas.

Lol, well forcing a --- of extra air into the cylinder will tend to have that effect, I prefer my AFRs to stay below 20 though

[autogyro]

A through scavenged supercharged two stroke using sleeve valves could achieve what you want but I cannot see why.

[Chengine]

I am encouraged that I am no longer flamed .

Let us change to a mystery to me before. Why is our engine efficiency and power both increase in winter over that of summer? In my case, it is almost 3 mpg. Why? In fact, they increase by the same amount to the extend I can determine. I felt the car has more punch. This effect is well known.

By the way, the reason for my patent's power gain and efficiency is complete garbage. I admit that. I have moved on to combustion temperature argument, that waste gas robs energy that could be used for K.E.

Please, I challenge all of you to give me a explanation without involving residual gas.

As regard to V.C funding. I have tried. engine technology is not sexy technology V.C.s want to be in. The only one I can possibly see with possibility would be Google founder. I may convince him with my argument. Chen engine is an alternative green energy engine and it worth investing or investigating. We all know Google wants to rule the world, why not new engine for the world?


Chengine

[Cold Fussion]

My understanding is that even venture capitalist would be put off by the mass of unsubstantiated claims and no theoretical basis for your idea.

[Chengine]

Tathan,

I agree with your objection and I already said my reason for getting efficiency in in patent is garbage. My current argument is that without the 10% waste gas (for idle it is almost 100% waste gas) my combustion will have higher temperature, higher pressure, thus more efficient than the one that has waste gas. This must be the point we agree upon, or we can not discuss further.

Given the fact, waste gas depleted combustion is, hotter, more efficient, thus we have more power, more torque, better fuel economy? Yes?

Now, it is a matter of determining how much improvement. I use the ideal ICE engine theory to compute my efficiency and obtained 20% at idle, by comparing combustion process with Gamma of 13 and 12.5(which by the way is exactly the value for waste gas). But things are much more complicated than ideal engine efficiency formula. Theory in this case can only guide us, but not give us a reliable answer. Nonetheless, there are reasonable gains, even the value is in question.

Has any one figured out why winter engine efficiency is higher than that of summer? If you do then we are on same page.


Chengine

[Chengine]

I would like to change topics on Greeness of Chen engine.

I have not a single comment on my claim of cleanness. I have to comment that we can not have maximum efficiency and maximum environmental friendliness. They are optimized differently, For absolute zero emission of CO and HC one may have to inject air before BC. These are all to be determined in development.

F1 racing now has priority on efficiency of the engine as well as maximum torque and power. And we also see various energy recovery systems in use. But Air pollution is not YET a requirement. Of course there is no engine concept that will produce zero emission. (there is, electric car) then who likes to watch electric car race. But there is an alternative, Chen engine with Nox converter. This is light weight candidate for future F1 racing when severe air pollution requirement is imposed.

Chengine

[flynfrog]

You might want to look at the amount of time an F1 engine spends at no load idle.

[Chengine]

trucker's answer: Why he leaves engine in idle.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde ... 703AABH0HG