Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2014

[mclaren_mircea]

Look over the last 18 months how many people joined Mercedes.
Then look at how many people Mclaren have lost to Mercedes and Ferrari over the last 18/24 months.

Now look at the results.

Mclaren are the slowest of all 4 mercedes powered teams, and in spite of alot of PR are still struggling to find form.

They need people. So again I would say this is a case of Mclaren poaching rather than Mercedes letting key staff go.

They took 2 people from Ferrari (Sansasavini and Mercanti) and they lost only a simulation engineer to Ferrari. Pat Fry went from Mclaren to Ferrari in 2010, and Sanchez in 2011. To Mercedes they lost no one, only Paddy Lowe who would have left anyway to a Toto Wolff team (he was in discussions with Williams when Wolf was there).
But what is really scarry is what is happening at Mercedes, it seems, that after the financial push for v6 regs, Daimler is brutally cuting the resources for F1, or that they come back to their normal situation until 2012, regarding the costs. Take a look at the list of person who left Mercedes just in the last months, and are incomplete informations from what I found on linkedin (the list could be much longer):
- Alex White
- Richard Mead
- Lawrence Wilkinson
- Florian Puget
- Craig Wilson
- Brendan Gilhome
- John Andrewartha
- John Buckley
- Evangelos Arvanitakis
- Ros Brawn
- Bob Bell
- Phil Arnaboldi

[smlbstcbr]

Quite worrying. Bob Bell's retiring certainly means things are not going smoothly there.

[mclaren_mircea]

Quite worrying. Bob Bell's retiring certainly means things are not going smoothly there.

I don't know what is happening inside the team, and it may be a natural thing, but it's just to many persons who are leaving in such a short space of time.

[Dyanxx]

Look over the last 18 months how many people joined Mercedes.
Then look at how many people Mclaren have lost to Mercedes and Ferrari over the last 18/24 months.

Now look at the results.

Mclaren are the slowest of all 4 mercedes powered teams, and in spite of alot of PR are still struggling to find form.

They need people. So again I would say this is a case of Mclaren poaching rather than Mercedes letting key staff go.

They took 2 people from Ferrari (Sansasavini and Mercanti) and they lost only a simulation engineer to Ferrari. Pat Fry went from Mclaren to Ferrari in 2010, and Sanchez in 2011. To Mercedes they lost no one, only Paddy Lowe who would have left anyway to a Toto Wolff team (he was in discussions with Williams when Wolf was there).
But what is really scarry is what is happening at Mercedes, it seems, that after the financial push for v6 regs, Daimler is brutally cuting the resources for F1, or that they come back to their normal situation until 2012, regarding the costs. Take a look at the list of person who left Mercedes just in the last months, and are incomplete informations from what I found on linkedin (the list could be much longer):
- Alex White
- Richard Mead
- Lawrence Wilkinson
- Florian Puget
- Craig Wilson
- Brendan Gilhome
- John Andrewartha
- John Buckley
- Evangelos Arvanitakis
- Ros Brawn
- Bob Bell
- Phil Arnaboldi

Since you're so interested in the teams staff movement, what about the people that joined the team in the last 2 years?

[dans79]

calm down people, a person switching companies is an every day occurrence. Any well run F1 team or company for that matter should be able to handle a decent amount of turnover. Well run companies make sure they have redundancy in key areas. They implement programs for cross training employees. They make sure junior employees are mentored by senior ones so that knowledge transfer happens.

For all we know the team cut back could have been planed years ago. The company I work for is doing exactly what Merc is doing. several years ago we drastically increased the staff size to ensure a big project was done well and on time. Now that the project is over people are slowly leaving the company, and the staff count is returning to what you would call normal operating level.

[mclaren_mircea]

Look over the last 18 months how many people joined Mercedes.
Then look at how many people Mclaren have lost to Mercedes and Ferrari over the last 18/24 months.

Now look at the results.

Mclaren are the slowest of all 4 mercedes powered teams, and in spite of alot of PR are still struggling to find form.

They need people. So again I would say this is a case of Mclaren poaching rather than Mercedes letting key staff go.

They took 2 people from Ferrari (Sansasavini and Mercanti) and they lost only a simulation engineer to Ferrari. Pat Fry went from Mclaren to Ferrari in 2010, and Sanchez in 2011. To Mercedes they lost no one, only Paddy Lowe who would have left anyway to a Toto Wolff team (he was in discussions with Williams when Wolf was there).
But what is really scarry is what is happening at Mercedes, it seems, that after the financial push for v6 regs, Daimler is brutally cuting the resources for F1, or that they come back to their normal situation until 2012, regarding the costs. Take a look at the list of person who left Mercedes just in the last months, and are incomplete informations from what I found on linkedin (the list could be much longer):
- Alex White
- Richard Mead
- Lawrence Wilkinson
- Florian Puget
- Craig Wilson
- Brendan Gilhome
- John Andrewartha
- John Buckley
- Evangelos Arvanitakis
- Ros Brawn
- Bob Bell
- Phil Arnaboldi

Since you're so interested in the teams staff movement, what about the people that joined the team in the last 2 years?

These people leaving are not the last 2 years, but the last 5-6 months. And remembert that at the end of 2011 their staff numbers were 450-470, while Mclaren and Ferrari +600.
At the highest point, during the final part of 2013, in Brackley were just (compared with the other bigs) 612 people. 612 people before they decided to again reduce the staff numbers. I don't think that 612 people are so much and you should start let people go while your competitors have 600-700 people and they say that they are recruiting. What can we assume? For Mercedes are to many 612 people and they have to reduce the numbers, and for Ferrari and Mclaren who already have more people than Mercedes at any point Mercedes had during their modern history in F1 are recruiting? Why these differences? Mercedes can't sustain a team of over 600 people, while Ferrari and Mclaren think that it is not enough to have over 600 people. Remember that while Mercedes increased their staff in the last 2 years, they did it because they were chronicaly down, only 450 people at the end of 2011. It was not a "wow, they have the same numbers of employees like Mclaren and Ferrari and it's impressing what they are doing recruiting so strongly in the last 2 years". They were too far away, and now, they can't remain at the same level with Ferrari and Mclaren regarding the staff numbers.
You will see how important are these people that next year, when their head start because of the engine advantage will disapear in the development race with Ferrari and Red Bull (Mclaren it's an unknown because of the Honda engine, even if they will have more resources than Mercedes).

[FoxHound]

They took 2 people from Ferrari (Sansasavini and Mercanti) and they lost only a simulation engineer to Ferrari. Pat Fry went from Mclaren to Ferrari in 2010, and Sanchez in 2011. To Mercedes they lost no one, only Paddy Lowe who would have left anyway to a Toto Wolff team (he was in discussions with Williams when Wolf was there).
But what is really scarry is what is happening at Mercedes, it seems, that after the financial push for v6 regs, Daimler is brutally cuting the resources for F1

This is not cost cutting, for the final time.

http://richlandf1.com/?p=17534

Giles wood and Mark Ellis, senior figures at Red Bull joined in late December of 2013.

http://www.gptoday.com/details/view/425 ... _Mercedes/

Mike Elliott was signed as Aero chief to aid Costa in April of 2013. Geoff Willis still has his position.
Paddy Lowe joined as a technical director for a sizeable sum of cash as of middle of last year.


Craig Wilson was head of Vehicle dynamics and moved to Williams.
Lawrence Wilkinson was a Control engineer that has moved to Force India.
Brendan Gilhome was an aerdoynamicist who has moved to Torro Rosso.
John Andrewartha has also gone to Torro Rosso.
John Buckley has left F1 entirely and is working for JPB aerdynamics(aviation).
Evangelos Arvanitakis was a junior Aerodynamicist up until 2012, and was cut from the team in July last year!
Richard mead was an Electrics Engineer at Mercedes HPP and has now gone onto a new path of Aerodynamics at Red bull.
Phil Arnaboldi is a mystery, I cant find if he has moved on to another team or just moved out of F1.
Either way, he is packaging, which means he is one of a few people and not the only person.




Florian Puget has gone to Ferrari to shore up their ERS programme which severely lacks what in comparison to Merc.<poached.

Ross Brawn has a natural replacement in Lowe, and I can assure you that there have been a few lower level recruits arrive recently, and McLaren is one of the sources.
In the end, the team has around a 1000 people working for them. You are bringing a list of 12 names which are mostly leaving to lower to mid table teams or leaving the sport entirely.

You are coming to a gunfight with a peashooter Hermano.
Some basic math based on your findings...Mercedes have a staff turnover of 1.2%, which is a staff retention of 98.8%.
You fail to bear in mind the number of recruits Mercedes have taken on in the last 24 months, and the nature of the jobs(mainly aero). These are natural losses any team will go through over a year. I would even say this is actually pretty good retention for a team in a shark infested environment such as F1.

And...what do we have here...hmmm
https://careers.mercedes-amg-hpp.com/va ... sults.aspx
4 jobs listed at HPP. And 1 at team proper.
http://careers.mercedesamgf1.com/vacanc ... /technical

So please do not worry about Mercedes. The health of this team is positively bursting with vitality in comparison to the situations at McLaren and Ferrari. And lest we forget, Red Bull are losing now, so Mateschitz of course will want to take his toys and play elsewhere...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula-one/26721387

Now, my Benfica call me to watch as they bid for a spot in final.

[smlbstcbr]

Hopefully, everything will be OK. They need to keep momentum. This year everything is going good with the cars and team and it would be rather silly for Daimler to believe they can relax for a while. Still, Bob Bell's departure from Brackley is still something peculiar.

[turbof1]

It's completely not what mercedes officially states:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113735

[FoxHound]

It's completely not what mercedes officially states:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113735

No surprise there. I think some people need to compare lists of other teams outgoing staff before coming to the conclusion of Daimler cost cutting....

[Edax]

Quite worrying. Bob Bell's retiring certainly means things are not going smoothly there.

I don't know what is happening inside the team, and it may be a natural thing, but it's just to many persons who are leaving in such a short space of time.

I think that it might have to do with the statement of Lowe. in an interview recently he said that the car had been completely redesigned last summer because the original design was considered too conservative.

Provided that this is true. I can only interpret that as an enormous vote of non-confidence in the original design team. Management didn't like the way the project was going and got some new people in to do it their way. That would make the position of some very difficult.

[mclaren_mircea]

It's completely not what mercedes officially states:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113735

No surprise there. I think some people need to compare lists of other teams outgoing staff before coming to the conclusion of Daimler cost cutting....

Give me one single example of a Mclaren engineer that went to Mercedes in the last 12 months, except of Paddy, with a relieable source. You can't find it because it does not exists. Don't you understand that Mercedes had at the end of 2011 F1 season, only 450 staff members in Brackley?? Can't you understand that even if you put 150 new engineers in their chassis team, only than they WOULD BE ON PAR WITH FERRARI AND MCLAREN?? Mercedes had 150 deficit, and they added 86, having a total of around 600 (the highest point before Lauda said that are "too much"
Mercedes GP = 450 (2011) + 150 new people (engineers, etc) ONLYE THEN, AND ONLY THAN = Ferrari and Mclaren 600-650 staff, and resuming that Ferrari and Mclaren didn't get any, but any new engineers in their organisation, which surely isn't the case. Hello, 150-170 people and only then on par with Mclaren/Ferrari.Mclaren and Ferrari lost some people, but in the same time employed much people than thei lost. Dirk de Beer, James Allison, Matt Morris, Ettore Grefiini, Ciaron Pilbeam + (and don't forget this "+") other low-ranking engineers from Lotus, Torro Rosso, Red Bull, Force India, etc. All the people you said that left Mclaren, you have to calculate with at leat +150 advantage compared from where Mercedes was. Mclaren has now more than 650 people, and Ferrari aprox 700-720. Where is Mercedes? At their highest points they had less than 620. Remember, Mclaren never, had NEVER fewer than 580-600, at their weakest point at the begining of 2013, And since than are recruiting having a starting base of +150 over Brawn/Mercedes. Don't you understood ???
Have a look at: http://www.littlegatepublishing.com/2013/10/mercf1/
I will resume to you the facts that puts you and Mercedes at you places:
"“Earlier in October Pitpass’ business editor Christian Sylt wrote a news story for the London-based business newspaper CityAM which revealed that Mercedes’ Formula One team made an after-tax loss of £31.5m in 2012. Revenue remained stable at £115m whilst operating costs accelerated 20% to £151m as 86 staff were added taking the total to 612. - DID YOU READ??? 612 And they added 86 people having a deficit of 150 compared to the big names Mclaren and Ferrari.
Don't forget: 612 the highes/happiest/optimistic number that Mercedes always had => nowhwere near Mclaren and Ferrari, nowhere.
And don't put sand in my eyes, with their staff HPP division. Because I can put the engineers that works in Tochigi for the development of the F1 engine for Mclaren Mp4-30, or Ferrari's engine division, and combined
Woking+Tochigi > Brackley + Brixwort
Marranello > Brackley + Brixworth

[FoxHound]

Mircea,

What is your point?
Seems a meandering argument that mercedes do not have enough numbers, yet they outscored ferrari and mclaren last year.
And if we look at force india, they have 380/400 staff members, and they have a better car with more points at this stage of the season.

How do them numbers stack up?

Finally, Christian Sylt is totally unreliable source of information. In 2009, he reported incorrectly that Mercedes had spent 120 million euros on a frozen engine formula.
Did Mercedes HPP spend 120 million? Yes.
Was it entirely on the frozen engines? No.
Something called KERS was completely sidelined to make a political point for his master, Bernard.

Now before this thread meanders any more than it already has, please have more concern for Mclaren, as their situation is worlds apart from Mercedes AMG.
A world of hurt.

[mclaren_mircea]

Mircea,

What is your point?
Seems a meandering argument that mercedes do not have enough numbers, yet they outscored ferrari and mclaren last year.
And if we look at force india, they have 380/400 staff members, and they have a better car with more points at this stage of the season.

How do them numbers stack up?

Finally, Christian Sylt is totally unreliable source of information. In 2009, he reported incorrectly that Mercedes had spent 120 million euros on a frozen engine formula.
Did Mercedes HPP spend 120 million? Yes.
Was it entirely on the frozen engines? No.
Something called KERS was completely sidelined to make a political point for his master, Bernard.

Now before this thread meanders any more than it already has, please have more concern for Mclaren, as their situation is worlds apart from Mercedes AMG.
A world of hurt.

612 staff was reported too by Motorsport-total, and Blick. And I think german press is relevant regarding Mercedes information.
That means that Mercedes did a better car after starting earlier than others the work on W05 (remember the resources taken from W03 and W04 towards all knives on table for 2014). But they won't resist in the long term in the developement race with the 3 bigs. Not this year, because realistically they have won the championship, but on the long term let Mclaren and Ferrari to deploy all the almost unlimited resources and facilities to eat the Mercedes team.

P.S Give me the source for one example of a Mclaren engineer that was poached by Mercedes in the last 12 months, except Paddy Lowe. Paddy would have left anyway because he wanted a leadership role like Neale and Whitmarsh, but it wasn't space at Mclaren for such a position for Paddy. He rang at Williams door, and wasn't a big capture by Mercedes, if he was in such a desperate situation to go to Williams. Toto Wolff confirmed that, don't try to hide that. And I want to see what you will say when Bell gives Mclaren all the secrets about Mercedes to Tim Goss and Matt Morris as their new Technical Director

[FoxHound]

You keep talking about numbers. Where have these number got mclaren and ferrari in 5 years?
Ferrari at least deploy their own engines, and call a bad situation when it sees it.
Mclaren have issued a ton of press releases stating huge performance gains at each of the last 4 GP.
Yet Force India lead them.
Mclaren canned the 2013 car early to focus on 2014, and it also has the mighty merc V6. Where has the numbers got them?
You appear overly concerned with mercedes when mclaren dont even have a title sponsor, and are debating whether to ditch its fancy yet ineffective butterfly suspension. Where are your 650 engineers now?
They're a great team, they'll be back. But it will be because of hard decisions and lengthy lead times in terms of coming back to good form.
Honda can certainly add to their cause. I feel your pain, bit please dont start adding 2 and 2 to get 10. Mercedes will not jeopardise its postion to save 10/20 million. Even the link Turbo kindly added verifies that mercedes arent backing off 1 bit.


Re your quest for names.
Paddy lowe can answer your question.
Linkd in cannot equate for all mercedes staff, and nor can each tean issue a press release to state when a non management team member has left to join another team.

Suffice to say, I'm a regular visitor to Brackley, and have posted some stories under another username at another site about the Mercedes team stationed there.

Former mclaren staff work at mercedes. If you want more, go to Brackley and find it first hand.
If you think Lewis Hamilton and Paddy Lowe are the only people to move, lets just say that is naive.