Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2014

[MercedesAMGSpy]

Mircea,

What is your point?
Seems a meandering argument that mercedes do not have enough numbers, yet they outscored ferrari and mclaren last year.
And if we look at force india, they have 380/400 staff members, and they have a better car with more points at this stage of the season.

How do them numbers stack up?

Finally, Christian Sylt is totally unreliable source of information. In 2009, he reported incorrectly that Mercedes had spent 120 million euros on a frozen engine formula.
Did Mercedes HPP spend 120 million? Yes.
Was it entirely on the frozen engines? No.
Something called KERS was completely sidelined to make a political point for his master, Bernard.

Now before this thread meanders any more than it already has, please have more concern for Mclaren, as their situation is worlds apart from Mercedes AMG.
A world of hurt.

612 staff was reported too by Motorsport-total, and Blick. And I think german press is relevant regarding Mercedes information.
That means that Mercedes did a better car after starting earlier than others the work on W05 (remember the resources taken from W03 and W04 towards all knives on table for 2014). But they won't resist in the long term in the developement race with the 3 bigs. Not this year, because realistically they have won the championship, but on the long term let Mclaren and Ferrari to deploy all the almost unlimited resources and facilities to eat the Mercedes team.

P.S Give me the source for one example of a Mclaren engineer that was poached by Mercedes in the last 12 months, except Paddy Lowe. Paddy would have left anyway because he wanted a leadership role like Neale and Whitmarsh, but it wasn't space at Mclaren for such a position for Paddy. He rang at Williams door, and wasn't a big capture by Mercedes, if he was in such a desperate situation to go to Williams. Toto Wolff confirmed that, don't try to hide that. And I want to see what you will say when Bell gives Mclaren all the secrets about Mercedes to Tim Goss and Matt Morris as their new Technical Director

Mercedes have Geoff Willis, Aldo Costa, Elliot + 2 new RBR engineers, a very strong team. You are always criticising Mercedes, but I think your own team have enough problems to solve. And Mercedes don't need to poach Mclaren engineers, because the current McLaren staff isn't impressive at all with a lot of new blokes from Woking. McLaren's last good car was the 2012 one, but they couldn't win anything with it because of terrible race operations. Combined with a new engine supplier, a lack of sponsors and an average drivers line-up compared to Hamilton and Rosberg, McLaren is miles behind Mercedes.

[smlbstcbr]

Quite worrying. Bob Bell's retiring certainly means things are not going smoothly there.

I don't know what is happening inside the team, and it may be a natural thing, but it's just to many persons who are leaving in such a short space of time.

I think that it might have to do with the statement of Lowe. in an interview recently he said that the car had been completely redesigned last summer because the original design was considered too conservative.

Provided that this is true. I can only interpret that as an enormous vote of non-confidence in the original design team. Management didn't like the way the project was going and got some new people in to do it their way. That would make the position of some very difficult.

Interesting, haven't really thought about it. Now I remember, Ross Brawn was interviewed after the Renault drama when testing began and he also said that, because of the new engine requirements and the behaviour they were getting from it in the dyno, they had to abandon the design they had and start from scratch; but I think that was before Lowe arrived (or not?). Does anyone know who's the proper designer of this W05?

[thomin]

Interesting, haven't really thought about it. Now I remember, Ross Brawn was interviewed after the Renault drama when testing began and he also said that, because of the new engine requirements and the behaviour they were getting from it in the dyno, they had to abandon the design they had and start from scratch; but I think that was before Lowe arrived (or not?). Does anyone know who's the proper designer of this W05?

From what I gathered, Costa was responsible for the mechanical parts, Willis for the aero and Bob Bell was sort of the guy overseeing everything, though from what was leaked last year, Bell was more occupied with working on the W04 during the 2013 season when the development of the W05 was well underway.

[FoxHound]

From what I've heard, Bell was QC.

[Edax]

I think that it might have to do with the statement of Lowe. in an interview recently he said that the car had been completely redesigned last summer because the original design was considered too conservative.

Provided that this is true. I can only interpret that as an enormous vote of non-confidence in the original design team. Management didn't like the way the project was going and got some new people in to do it their way. That would make the position of some very difficult.

Interesting, haven't really thought about it. Now I remember, Ross Brawn was interviewed after the Renault drama when testing began and he also said that, because of the new engine requirements and the behaviour they were getting from it in the dyno, they had to abandon the design they had and start from scratch; but I think that was before Lowe arrived (or not?). Does anyone know who's the proper designer of this W05?

It would not suprise me if the answer to that is Lauda. It is very obvious that he has taken over many aspects of the organisation. And that new appointments are minions of Lauda, as probably is Paddy Lowe.

In his racing days he was more than any driver involved in the development of the car. Apparently he has a very good understanding of the engineering behind a F1 car. And in contrast to most of the technical directors he actually knows how it is to drive one.

So it would not surprise me if he is the real architect of the car. Note, the most important role of a technical manager is not to design stuff, but to evaluate the ideas of the engineers and to decided which directions are worthwile to pursue and which not.

Besides, I cannot imagine anyone else saying to someone with the stature of Brawn: "sorry Ross but this is just not good enough, we have to do something else", and have the authority and political skills to make it stick within Mercedes.

[monsi]

That last post leaves me wryly amused. Non-technical people can make great motivational man-managers, project managers, PR people, but technical managers ? A good technical manager has to command respect for technical knowledge and technical achievement, they are 'been there done that people', they have to be able to sketch out (literally much of the time) outline proposals, and to have the experience to head off their eager young engineers and modelers running off down unproductive technical rabbit holes, they have to prioritise alternative proposals with competing evidence. They have to be as happy with maths and technical diagrams as they are with their native language. It is hard to imagine non-technical people succeeding in these roles. Though as in all aspects of life there is always someone who confounds expectations somewhere.

[thomin]

It would not suprise me if the answer to that is Lauda.

That would most definitely surprise me. He may understand the technical side better than many, but that doesn't make him an expert on modern day F1 technology. Also, my understanding is that his role in the day to day operations (which includes designing the car) is advisory at most.

His biggest contribution is that he's the guy who can negotiate with the big guys. It was Lauda who got Ecclestone to give Mercedes a similarly good deal as Ferrari, McLaren or Red Bull and it was him who got Hamilton to sign for the team. He is well connected with the established powers of F1 thanks to his long history in the sport which certainly helps the team when it comes to back door politics.

Sure, he's not shy to mouth his opinion and he probably doesn't mince words internally, but the day to day decisions are made elsewhere, let alone the direction the design team choses to take.

[smlbstcbr]

Lauda has been out of the sport for a very long time, so his technical input would be poor at best. Wolff has been in Williams recently and might have some knowledge of recent car developments. It seems the logical choice would be Lowe to direct everything technical. Does anyone know how Lowe was seen at McLaren? Someone who inspires respect? A person that has great technical knowledge? A calm person? A mini-Ross? I wonder if the train stops at him, which was the reason Ross left Mercedes, because Wolff and Lauda would be the points of reference.

[Tommorris747]

Mircea,

What is your point?
Seems a meandering argument that mercedes do not have enough numbers, yet they outscored ferrari and mclaren last year.
And if we look at force india, they have 380/400 staff members, and they have a better car with more points at this stage of the season.

How do them numbers stack up?

Finally, Christian Sylt is totally unreliable source of information. In 2009, he reported incorrectly that Mercedes had spent 120 million euros on a frozen engine formula.
Did Mercedes HPP spend 120 million? Yes.
Was it entirely on the frozen engines? No.
Something called KERS was completely sidelined to make a political point for his master, Bernard.

Now before this thread meanders any more than it already has, please have more concern for Mclaren, as their situation is worlds apart from Mercedes AMG.
A world of hurt.

Totally disagree. Silt and Adam Cooper are the only journalists out there who regularly cover the business of F1 and their articles dont seem to be as extreme as some of the others IMHO. They write for all the top magazines and newspapers which is a good indication of quality in itself. Dont agree with you about kers anyway as the cost of it is surely no where near as much as the engines so the 120 figure sounds to be accurate...

[ernos5]

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/ill-sta ... 70826.html
remember this anyone? Bit weak, not doing as you said...

[FoxHound]

Totally disagree. Silt and Adam Cooper are the only journalists out there who regularly cover the business of F1 and their articles dont seem to be as extreme as some of the others IMHO. They write for all the top magazines and newspapers which is a good indication of quality in itself. Dont agree with you about kers anyway as the cost of it is surely no where near as much as the engines so the 120 figure sounds to be accurate...

Where did I mention Adam Cooper?

It is your right to disagree, I have no issue with someone disagreeing if they put forward a valid reason.
But I cannot see any validity to your disagreement.

Here is the news piece, and I suggest you read more of his stories before coming to a final conclusion.
http://www.pitpass.com/39408/Mercedes-most-costly-loss

The lack of understanding, the clear stupidity of this "news piece" is there for all to see.
One moment it is...

In fact, despite the engine freeze, which the FIA told the world would cut costs, Mercedes spent more money on its engines in 2008 than in any of the past five years.

...Implying Mercedes spend was entirely on it's engines.

Then he hot foots onto...

To maximise the lead time, Mercedes begins work on the cutting-edge V8 F1 engines in the year before they are introduced so the bulk of its spending last year was dedicated to its 2009 campaign.

Did Mr Sylt ever consider, that in the previous 5 years Mercedes did not supply 2 other teams?
Force India and Brawn used Merc V8s in 2009, the logisitcs in supplying 3 teams from one will add 10s of millions to the costs. No mention was made of this, but of course he has his motives for writing this rubbish.

Perhaps the most concerning thing is that according to Mercedes, the sharp increase in money spent on the engines was due primarily to the development of Kers which of course the F1 teams have agreed not to use next year.

Ahhhhhhh so KERS is now "engines"? The whole newspiece is back to front!
Zytek will be seething....And what is even more amusing is that the Independant(whom he works for on occasion) ran the story of Zytek supplying McLaren Merc 2 months before Sylt published his er, story.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/moto ... 70107.html

Finally, I will give you a clue as to whom bank rolls Mr Sylt. Here is a list of stories as published by him in the last 7 years.
Look how many gushing new stories there are for the diminutive ringmaster we all love and hate.
http://journalisted.com/christian-sylt?allarticles=yes

Nothing against Mr C Sylt the man, as I don't know the guy. But as a journalist, it is shocking to see the absolute lamentable quality of his shoddy reports. Inaccuracies, agendas, non stories, factually incorrect information etc.
I've given you my opinion now please, feel free to dissect and reflect on what I have given you.

[gray41]

[MercedesAMGSpy]

The Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One team is delighted to announce a new partnership with world-leading fan and motor provider ebm-papst.

ebm-papst has developed off-board cooling solutions for the Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 W05 racing cars, in addition to working closely with the team to improve the garage working environment at Grand Prix venues through innovative, custom-built heat extraction and cooling solutions which will be introduced later in the 2014 season. This will be of particular value at venues such as Singapore with challenging climatic conditions.

Furthermore, Mercedes AMG Petronas and ebm-papst will work hand-in-hand on future projects to improve the energy efficiency of the team’s operational facilities at Brackley, in addition to holding technical working groups to share expertise and best practice in areas such as Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD), turbine technology and energy efficiency.

By signing with Mercedes AMG Petronas, ebm-papst becomes the first major partner to enter Formula One as a direct consequence of the new efficiency based rules introduced for the 2014 season and beyond.

Winner of the 2013 German Sustainability Award (GSA) in the category “Germany’s most sustainable companies” – one of the most prestigious prizes of its kind in Europe – ebm-papst has been recognised for its outstanding achievements in sustainability.

It is from these very principles that the new era of Formula One finds its roots. As the automotive industry increasingly demands more from less, efficiency and hybrid technologies become all the more relevant. As the pinnacle of automotive technology and performance, the sport has a significant role to play in driving these technologies forward. For Mercedes AMG Petronas, this fresh philosophy and its relevance to the road holds particular importance.

Head of Mercedes-Benz Motorsport, Toto Wolff, commented: “Formula One is the pinnacle of automotive innovation. As such, it has a duty to push the boundaries of technology. The new regulations not only encourage this innovation but also make the sport more relevant to the direction in which the motoring industry is heading.

“Our partnership with ebm-papst not only provides the team with the best solutions available to operate our racing cars but it also demonstrates the significance of new and innovative technologies within the sport. To welcome a new partner as a direct consequence of the new 2014 rules is proof that we are heading in the right direction. Our research and development for the race track is now increasingly relevant not only to our road car activities but also wider fields of technology.”

Rainer Hunsdorfer, CEO of ebm-papst, commented: “We are delighted that Mercedes AMG Petronas has chosen our sustainable technology and that we are able to join Formula One at this important strategic realignment for the sport. For us, this commitment represents an investment in the future. Mercedes AMG Petronas is world class when it comes to the domain of aerodynamic efficiency. I am confident that we will derive mutual benefit from this partnership.”

Interesting. It's not the rumoured American company.

[bonjon1979]

The Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One team is delighted to announce a new partnership with world-leading fan and motor provider ebm-papst.

ebm-papst has developed off-board cooling solutions for the Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 W05 racing cars, in addition to working closely with the team to improve the garage working environment at Grand Prix venues through innovative, custom-built heat extraction and cooling solutions which will be introduced later in the 2014 season. This will be of particular value at venues such as Singapore with challenging climatic conditions.

Furthermore, Mercedes AMG Petronas and ebm-papst will work hand-in-hand on future projects to improve the energy efficiency of the team’s operational facilities at Brackley, in addition to holding technical working groups to share expertise and best practice in areas such as Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD), turbine technology and energy efficiency.

By signing with Mercedes AMG Petronas, ebm-papst becomes the first major partner to enter Formula One as a direct consequence of the new efficiency based rules introduced for the 2014 season and beyond.

Winner of the 2013 German Sustainability Award (GSA) in the category “Germany’s most sustainable companies” – one of the most prestigious prizes of its kind in Europe – ebm-papst has been recognised for its outstanding achievements in sustainability.

It is from these very principles that the new era of Formula One finds its roots. As the automotive industry increasingly demands more from less, efficiency and hybrid technologies become all the more relevant. As the pinnacle of automotive technology and performance, the sport has a significant role to play in driving these technologies forward. For Mercedes AMG Petronas, this fresh philosophy and its relevance to the road holds particular importance.

Head of Mercedes-Benz Motorsport, Toto Wolff, commented: “Formula One is the pinnacle of automotive innovation. As such, it has a duty to push the boundaries of technology. The new regulations not only encourage this innovation but also make the sport more relevant to the direction in which the motoring industry is heading.

“Our partnership with ebm-papst not only provides the team with the best solutions available to operate our racing cars but it also demonstrates the significance of new and innovative technologies within the sport. To welcome a new partner as a direct consequence of the new 2014 rules is proof that we are heading in the right direction. Our research and development for the race track is now increasingly relevant not only to our road car activities but also wider fields of technology.”

Rainer Hunsdorfer, CEO of ebm-papst, commented: “We are delighted that Mercedes AMG Petronas has chosen our sustainable technology and that we are able to join Formula One at this important strategic realignment for the sport. For us, this commitment represents an investment in the future. Mercedes AMG Petronas is world class when it comes to the domain of aerodynamic efficiency. I am confident that we will derive mutual benefit from this partnership.”

Interesting. It's not the rumoured American company.

Isn't this is all the offboard stuff, ie aircon and blowers for radiator inlets and brake ducts?

[Pierce89]

Wow! A sponsor for brake blowers and garage fans?