Renault webchat feat. Axel Plasse

[checkered]

Webchat with Axel Plasse
RS27 project manager, ING Renault F1 Team

April 24th 2007, 12.30 BST, Live from Viry
http://www.ing-renaultf1.com/en/paddock/chat/

I thought that since there is an opportunity to enlighten ourselves with the design and inner workings of a design team of an F1 engine, it might be a good idea to go over points of interest beforehand. I myself will propably not be able to participate in the webchat anyway (albeit it seems it is possible to leave questions beforehand), so it'd be nice if those interested listed their interests here.

Perhaps, working together, we'll come up with better questions that are more likely to be answered. There has been recent interest in regenerative systems, valve overlap, exhaust design, 2007 V8 idle RPM etc. The way I see it, here's our chance to get definite answers to some of these questions and a glimpse at the future. In addition to our recent topics, I would like to raise questions like these:

1) Despite the 19.000 RPM limit, meaningful differences are said to remain in the bhp of 2007 F1 engines. Some of the commentators' approximations put BMW at the top currently. Would you agree and if so/ if not, where do you believe you're at in the bhp comparisons and how significant is peak output in terms of overall F1 engine performance and competitiviness?

2) An F1 engine produces far more power than can be used in a controlled fashion by the driver on most parts of most racetracks. Technological means such as TC moderate the excess power out of the equation. TC will be banned (and the ban controlled with the standard ECU) soon. What do you believe are the main modifications the team has to do to its engine so that it remains as driveable as possible?

3) As Renault has admittedly been a bit caught out with the transition to Bridgestones, aside from aero and suspension dynamics optimization, what can the engine dept. do to help the team get to grips with the tyres?

4) Denis Chevrier has recently expressed some frustration with the homologation and tight rules governing technology in general having a hindering effect in getting competitive through R&D. Would you agree, and have you perceived a similar attitude or opinion with other teams and engineers in F1 too?

I'm hoping someone could formulate these better, or somehow make them more to the point or something. Let's see. I tend to be wordy (with no good reason) to the frustration of others. Anyway, here's some backround information on Axel Plasse, if you want to ask specifics on how he got where he is now (from http://engineeringf1.free.fr/en/index.html )

AXEL PLASSE
Nationality : french
Date of birth : Septembre 7, 1968
Main fields of activity : engine

graduated from l’ENSICA (Ecole Nationale Supérieure d'Ingénieurs de Construction Aéronautique) and from l'ENSPM (Ecole Nationale Supérieure du Pétrole et des Moteurs)

engineer > Sagem
1993-1996 : dyno test engineer, development, tuning > Renault (F1)
1996-1997 : track engineer for Williams > Renault (F1)
1998-1999 : head of F5R engine tests > Renault
1999-2003 : head of testing > Supertec/Renault (F1)
2003-2007 : project manager > Renault (F1)

Note - I have not, I repeat, not posted my questions to the Renault webchat "as is", since I truly hope this can be co-ordinated through F1T as far as the participants of this forum are concerned.

EDIT: I reformulated my questions somewhat and updated them here, too. In the absence of any other questions to be co-ordinated, I took the time to file these "as is" with the Renault website. If either Tomba or Principessa are going to participate in the chat, my wish is that you'd go over the recent engine related topics with an eye for potential questions.

I hardly think each and every one of my four questions will be answered, so if I added even more, it'd surely only lessen the possibility that Plasse will answer an even larger amount. Better that they come from someone else. If I should get lucky and get an answer to any of my inquiries, I will post it here. À tout à l'heure!

[checkered]

Alors, ce "chat" (meow, hein? ... ) était complètement en français! Si je le savais avant ... ... mais il a répondu à une question en anglais aussi. Malheureusement ce n'était aucun de ceux que j'ai posé.

"Forgive my french, but" ... Maybe Vyselegend was around to take notes though ... A couple of points of interest (for me at least): Plasse seems to dismiss a diesel engine in F1, but sees a bioethanol turbo as possible from 2011 onwards. He thinks mainly two regenerative technologies are realistic: kinetic (flywheel) and electric (battery + motor/generator).

He wouldn't comment on Renault potentially switching from V to zero keel, as that is up to Enstone and not Viry anyway.

The torque curve of the RS27 was rethought for 2007, maxing towards 17.000 RPM. The FIA rules regarding the new 2008 ECU are not yet clearly defined. Idle RPM is around 3.000 to 4.000 limited mainly by the lightness of the moving parts, slower than that and the movement becomes unstable (I guess by the lack of sufficient momentum). Monza is the track where sheer power makes the most difference; 10 BHP advantage translates to roughly two tenths per lap.

The teams have a rough idea of their competitors' efficiency in cooling the engines, but there's no direct parallel to be drawn from the external shaping of the pontoon. Renault has modifications in the pipeline concerning pumps, exhausts, engine packaging ... that being said, Plasse acknowledged that their last year's stretched out championship battle left less room to manage the start of their 2007 campaign.

He claimed that to compensate for the 1,3 secs (?, written "1seconde3") they lag behind Ferrari by engine improvements alone, they would have to find around 100 extra BHP ...

And life is not without its surprises: one of Axel's primary school teachers took part in the chat!

[zac510]

Interesting - his comment about '100hp extra' seems to allude to the engine being quite fine and the chassis simply not using the tyres sufficiently.

Do you understand the bit about vibrations between 6500-8500rpm?

[Carlos]

V-8"s have an inherent vibration problem built into the design - this article comments:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/2003/eb10330.htm

[checkered]

Do you understand the bit about vibrations between 6500-8500rpm?

I think the guy asking the question just had the idle RPM wrong and thought it couldn't get lower because of vibrations ... there was also stuff about engine mapping and such, but it was so basic I didn't have the energy to go through all of that.

[vyselegend]

Alors, ce "chat" (meow, hein? ... ) était complètement en français! Si je le savais avant ... ... mais il a répondu à une question en anglais aussi. Malheureusement ce n'était aucun de ceux que j'ai posé.

"Forgive my french, but" ... Maybe Vyselegend was around to take notes though ...

I wasn't...
I was aware of the chat (thanks to your post btw) but I knew since the begining that I was going to miss it, because we have quite a hard time at work these days.I can't take things lightly as I could before...

About the chat being in french, I don't really understand why they aren't doing it in both language. Their site is bilingual, and I'm sure cleaver people like Axel Plasse have a perfect english level.
I remember some frenchs were pissed on the renault blog that the Pat Symond's chat was only in english. Now english fans are left appart with A.Plasse. The Renault webmasters should put it together and make every content accessible for both language.
I promise as soon as possible I'll made a full traduction of the transcript of this chat.

Et aussi bravo pour ton français checkered! =D> Je suis impressionné, même pas une faute d'orthographe. Si les français du blog renault pouvait s'exprimer aussi bien dans leur propre langue...

[vyselegend]

Chose promise, chose dûe:

Here's my translation of the full chat transcript -in bold the webmaster comments and in italic are my personnal comments (if I have to)
If sometimes I sound as bad as a google traduction, please note it ain't my fault! the original posts in french are sometimes very confused, so the traduction can't be clear.

Hi everyone and welcome to the second chat of the season!
Thank you Axel to join us.
You can ask your questions already...

Axel Plasse: Hi everyone!

GALEX85: What are the current possibilities in term of engine evolution?

Axel Plasse: They are quite reduced: we can evolve the whole pump systems, but also mainly the whole admission (horns, injectors, etc...) and the exhausts.

herve: Hi. Any diesel engine project in the pipeline?

Axel Plasse: No, but a bioethanol turbo engine is clearly possible for 2011.

elno: we often hear about engine mapping, what does it mean exactly? thanks for your answear.

Axel Plasse: Nowadays an engine is controlled by one or several electronical boxes which allow to define fuel quantity rate for each engine cycles, the exact timing of injection and exact timing of sparks.All those parameters are adjustable within (excel type) tables, which are called mapping charts.

Big one:will you modify front suspention for a zero keel switch? Does Red Bull's RS27 also work with ELF fuel?

Axel Plasse: For the first part of the question, you should ask our Enstone colleagues, but yes, Red Bull is using same ELF fuel as Renault.

herve: engine revs limit is blocking the research of power, so you need to work on torque. How is it on the RS27?

Axel Plasse: Indeed,since the 19000rpm limitation increasing torque is the only way to raise power. The RS27's torque curve has been reworked consequently.Globaly it is good and reach its max near 17000 rpm.

elno: will the FIA enforcing of standard ECU prevent you to use your exellent start system?

Axel Plasse:Softwares strategies allowed by the FIA in the new ECU aren't clearly defined yet. But probably it will be hard to keep such a performant starting strategy.

GALEX85: How does one become engine developpement department's chief?(~traduction)

Axel Plasse: 1-By working well at school! (laugh) 2- with a good engineering degree and possibly an IFP specialisation (Institut Français du Pétrole => French Institute of Petrol) 3- By being a F14 passionate - Globaly by showing determination and pugnacity.

herve: Idle rpm of a F1 engine is around 6500 to 8500 rpm. Is it because of vibrations that you don't use lower revving band?

Axel Plasse: F1 engine minimal rev is at 3000 or 4000 rpm. The main reason is the light weight of engine pieces (no flywheel for exemple), which means a stable lower revving is very hard to obtain.

Jerome: What about energy recovery systems?

Axel Plasse:They are on the program for 2009. There is two main families: Mechanic (energy stocking via the cinetical form within an inertia wheel)(very hard to translate-sorry), and electric (battery and electro engine)

Steph: Which track is using the engine the much?

Axel Plasse: I'll translate : Which is the ciruit where engine makes the greatest contribution to performance?--> Monza, where a 10 bhp upgrade lead to a 2 tenth gain by lap.

Jerome: Do you travel to every GP? Or you stay to the factory the whole week-end?

elno: What type of composite materials are used for different engine parts?

elno: How much different peoples and jobs are needed for the engine conception at Viry?

--We have few technical problems- we are working on it--


Colette: Hi, do you remember me? I'm Colette Brouté, your former school teacher in CM2 at Ramon. Congratulations for your professional sucsess. Did Cédric follow the same way? Hi to your mom. My formula one passionate of a husband asks if you think the team will fight back with Ferrari for the next races? Dearly (LOL )

--Logically we'll get back to the chat in 2 mn--

Axel Plasse: Hi Colette! Of course I remember you (Mme Delabrousse). For all of you, it's partly thanks to this brillant teacher that I learned to work well at school...! You can join me at the following personal adress: webmestre@renaultf1.com . It will be a pleasure to speak with you again. To answear your husband's question, yes, our ambition is clearly to fight back at the top level. But it will take time and 2007 will be hard.

Bernard: Hi, bravo to the team.Does engine rev limit harm you? I feel yes and for a motorist I think it's ridiculous because tenth can be gained that way but now the most important thing is to be flawless. For me something is missing.

Hatim: I heared RF1 developped a quick shift transmission worth 1 sec gain a lap. Is it true?

yann: Hi, do you know exactly the cooling needs of your competitors by the meshing of their aero?

Axel Plasse: There is no precise relations between the shape of the sidepods and the radiators surface with the cooling needs. But we know which engines are particulary efficients and which ones are needing the most cooling.

Laurent: What happened to the true RS27, as we all know the current block is a reworked RS26?

Axel Plasse: Some pieces are stocked. they helped us and will continue to help us on the modified RS26 running in the car this season.

Hatim: the revving limùit is 19000rpm, so why Renault's max speed doesn't match Ferrari's?

Axel Plasse: The relation between max speed and max rev is defined by gear ratio. So, different gear ratios lead to different max speed with same engine speed. What defines a F1 car max speed is the ratio between engine power and aero (Scx= produit de la surface frontale par le coeficient de penetration dans l'air)(I fail to traduct this, but basically he's explaining what is Cx)

Bertrand: Hi. I'd like to have indications about RS27's developpement during the 2007 season. What can you modify? How much can you gain? Did the late rules changes affect your way to fight the last round of 2006? Would you have liked to change developpement calendar or try other technical solutions? thank you.

Axel Plasse: Yes.we have planned some evolutions this year, some for Barcelona and some for french and britain GPs. New pumps, new exhausts and new engine package (airbox, horns etc..) Last years rule changes gave us more heart for work in order to develop the RS26 up to the last round to secure both championships, knowing our tuning range would be clearly narrower in 2007.

Pitarello Nastacia: Dear Axel, is it possible that this year the RS27 is a disaster? I'm sorry not to be able to chat but tuesday I will be to work.Good job. Nastacia

Axel Plasse: The RS27, very narrow evolution of the RS26 champion engine, is logically far from a disaster. To gain the 1'3 sec (away from Ferrari) only with engine would need a 100HP upgrade...

Isabelle: Do you think you have enough working time during the 4 weeks gap before Spain to pretend to the podium (be it chassis or engine upgrades). Anyway cheers for the team(blablabla-sorry I'm a bit tired)

Axel Plasse:Obviously we'll have upgrades for barcelona, but the competition is doing the same and there's no way we can close the gap on Ferrari and Mc Laren in 4 weeks. The rage to win is allways the same at Viry. We know we have a lot of work to do to be on top again, but we are loving this type of challenge at Viry.
Now I need to go to a meeting. So thanks everyone for your support and your questions (sorry for those I couldn't answear to). continue to support us, and we'll be back.

[checkered]

Bien fait, Vyse ...

Concernant mes capabilités du français, vous êtes trop gentil. Dans la plupart je suis définement sur un niveau touristique, j'en suis sûr - en utilisent mon vocabulaire limité les termes techniques me donne des cheveux gris. Et vous devriez entenrde mon prononciation ...

So I'm in no position to judge the quality of the french language on the Renault blog - it all sounds fine by me! Maybe in time, you'll notice that I've learned to express myself in a similar fashion . Anyway, it doesn't bother me too much if they don't bother with translations ...

... at least as long as their time is better spent fighting their way back to the top. I understand Flav has said that they will still go for 3rd this season even if they have propably shifted most of their resources towards 2008.

[Carlos]

Vyselegend - Thank you for the translation.

[mx_tifoso]

at least as long as their time is better spent fighting their way back to the top. I understand Flav has said that they will still go for 3rd this season even if they have propably shifted most of their resources towards 2008.

(No offense meant to anyone )

I wonder if Renault's plans to come back to the top in '08 include Fisichella or not. He is a great person I imagine, but he hasnt really achieved "much"* lately, or as of his entrance into F1. And we all know Piquet is yearning to race alongside HK next year. I wonder what will happen. It kind of surprised me to see them so far down the grid, compared to the previous two seasons**. But I doubt Renault will end up above BMW in the championship standings come October. In both Drivers and Constructors. Only time will tell.

This comes to show us how important the driver*** really is, and that it's not all about the car. Key phrase; "not all"

* I use this very liberally.
** Yes, I know, switch from Michelin to Bridgestone had a lot to with it, among others.
*** Referring to Alonso.