Mechanical properties of an F1 engine.

[Coder]

Hi,

I'm in the progress of writing a racing game, and for physics simulation I would need the following variables for a F1 engine:

• Range of rpm
  Redline rpm
  Idle rpm
  peak torque
  minimum torque

I would also appreciate values for

• Maximum length of spring
  Springconstant
  Springdampening

Thanks a lot for your help!

[Sawtooth-spike]

Which season are you simulating? as this will massively effect the answers. Also all the makes of engine are differant so this migt cause you a problem.

Just to check (somebody tell me if i am wrong), but F1 cars dont use springs anymore for valves, they are hydrolic, because a sping does odd things past 12000RPM

[Coder]

Thanks for your quick reply.

Actually precise values are not that important in my case. I am aiming for a game that's fun to play rather than trying to mimic the exact behaviour (think of casual game, not simulation). Of course it shouldn't feel like you are driving a VW Beetle, so I need the right magnitude of these values. An average or a range of F1 specific values will do.

[Coder]

For those who don't know and would like to know:

After a little research, I came up with the following approximate values:

Redline RPM: 18500
Idle RPM: 4000-6000

With about 800 Horsepower I calculated the torque:
Peak: 1000
Min: 200

I'm pretty sure that there is something odd going on the way I calculated the torque. I cannot image that torque has a linear relation to rpm, does it?

Comments are appreciated.

[RH1300S]

I would suggest you get hold of rFactor - then download some of the better mods (inc. some F1 mods) - then take a close look at the various car files - I expect you will find everything you require in those. The amount of information required to make an rFactor mod is staggering - if you need more than that you are probably developing some form of supe-sim.

Spring length/spring rate - damping values etc. are pretty irrelevant unless you know the motion ratio between spring and wheel.

[MrT]

It is a linear relationship, as Power = Torque * Engine Speed, so the constant or linearity is the engine speed.

[mx_tifoso]

With about 800 Horsepower I calculated the torque:
Peak: 1000
Min: 200

Comments are appreciated.

Are you sure the current F1 car produces 1000 ft-lb of torque? With the 2.4 Litre V8 ? And seeing how on average the HP is 750.

I havent made any calculations myself, but it seems too much for me. Just curious though.

[Ray]

I read somewhere that the Honda made only about 280lb-ft. It can't be much higher than that. They don't have the stroke for big torque like that.

[R1ceboy32]

I think you assuming that the engine is constantly producing 800hp which isn't true. This would explain why you getting such high torque vaules at lower rpms. Back with the old v-10s they hard about 280ftlb of torque starting at about 6krpm and essentially was held constant until redline.

[modbaraban]

[really hi-tech invisible post]

(sorry for this)

[Ray]

Yeah, there is no way in hell an F1 rngine could produce that much torque. Or even half that.

[modbaraban]

rFactor sim by ISI gives these stats:

BMW P86 V8 engine

Code: Select all

RPMTorque=(    0,  -32.3,  -32.3)
RPMTorque=(  500,  -32.1,  -20.0)
RPMTorque=( 1000,  -33.4,    3.0)
RPMTorque=( 1500,  -35.2,   29.8)
RPMTorque=( 2000,  -37.2,   59.5) // Maximum Power: 723 horsepower @ 17500 RPM
RPMTorque=( 2500,  -39.1,   84.3) // Maximum Torque: 316 NM @ 15500 RPM
RPMTorque=( 3000,  -40.9,   99.2)
RPMTorque=( 3500,  -42.8,  114.1)
RPMTorque=( 4000,  -44.7,  130.2)
RPMTorque=( 4500,  -46.6,  162.2)
RPMTorque=( 5000,  -48.6,  175.2)
RPMTorque=( 5500,  -50.7,  184.2)
RPMTorque=( 6000,  -52.8,  193.1)
RPMTorque=( 6500,  -55.0,  208.2)
RPMTorque=( 7000,  -57.2,  219.2)
RPMTorque=( 7500,  -59.4,  225.2)
RPMTorque=( 8000,  -61.7,  237.2)
RPMTorque=( 8500,  -63.9,  252.3)
RPMTorque=( 9000,  -66.2,  260.2)
RPMTorque=( 9500,  -68.5,  272.2)
RPMTorque=(10000,  -70.9,  278.3)
RPMTorque=(10500,  -73.4,  281.2)
RPMTorque=(11000,  -76.0,  287.3)
RPMTorque=(11500,  -78.9,  293.9)
RPMTorque=(12000,  -82.0,  296.4)
RPMTorque=(12500,  -85.4,  298.3)
RPMTorque=(13000,  -89.3,  301.3)
RPMTorque=(13500,  -93.6,  307.4)
RPMTorque=(14000,  -98.3,  310.3)
RPMTorque=(14500, -103.4,  313.3)
RPMTorque=(15000, -109.1,  315.3)
RPMTorque=(15500, -114.9,  316.2)
RPMTorque=(16000, -120.9,  310.3)
RPMTorque=(16500, -127.0,  304.2)
RPMTorque=(17000, -133.3,  301.3)
RPMTorque=(17500, -139.6,  294.2)
RPMTorque=(18000, -146.0,  281.2)
RPMTorque=(18500, -152.7,  266.3)
RPMTorque=(19000, -160.1,  243.2)

[Saribro]

Just for the heck of it, I tossed it into a graph:
[EDIT]updated the graph for better readability
[IMG:970:604]http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/5720/torquehk8.png[/img]

[mx_tifoso]

Are there any specific sites where we can find this information ? Such as current F1 engine torque, because we all know the average HP, but it just seems that torque is not talked about. And 1000 ft-lb of torque is monstrous ! That would accelerate out of the corners with tremendous force. It definately does not seem right to me. As Ray said, maybe about 300 or less is a correct assumption. Just like in sports cars, ample amount of HP, but very little Torque, excluding Mercedes-AMG engines.

And according to Saribro's graph, the engine torque output is below 0 ft-lb below 1,200 RPM ? How does that work ? And is that true ?

[modbaraban]

Just for the heck of it, I tossed it into a graph:...

1st of all thanx for that.

U actually did 3 nice things:
1. made myself a nice graph, I'll need that

2. Illustrated my post

3. most unbelievable -> Managed to come up with a graph before Ciro did



PS: how did u calculate power out of those numbers?